From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Achim Gratz Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: ELPA and core services Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 08:01:55 +0200 Message-ID: <87hau02alo.fsf@Rainer.invalid> References: <87vcij7rvi.fsf@mithlond.arda> <82d34r8ej9.fsf@gmail.com> <87r4t4zr9l@ch.ristopher.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1340604153 26130 80.91.229.3 (25 Jun 2012 06:02:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 06:02:33 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 25 08:02:29 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Sj2NX-0003bW-F9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 08:02:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51527 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sj2NX-0005TE-Fe for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 02:02:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:33754) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sj2NQ-0005Rw-Ge for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 02:02:25 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sj2NI-0004Pq-3W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 02:02:20 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:48593) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sj2NH-0004PL-Sc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 02:02:12 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Sj2NF-0003V8-Ax for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 08:02:09 +0200 Original-Received: from pd9eb25cd.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.235.37.205]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 08:02:09 +0200 Original-Received: from Stromeko by pd9eb25cd.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 08:02:09 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 31 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pd9eb25cd.dip.t-dialin.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:BWhzOCMyeCNdtNtceZwSB5nwHBo= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:151148 Archived-At: John Wiegley writes: >> On top of that, IMO every single core package should have a copy on GNU ELPA >> so one can to overwrite the native GNU Emacs one with the one from GNU ELPA. >> This would decouple all packages from the Emacs release cycle and allow bug >> fixes to be distributed instantly. > > Now, this I agree with completely. ELPA overrides is a great idea, and I > think it could accelerate development -- as long as inter-package version > dependencies are managed. If the newest Gnus suddenly depends on the the > newest something-else, that something-else should be installed/updated along > with it automatically. It may be a great idea, but even ignoring inter-package dependencies it currently doesn't really work due to the way autoloads are generated and used in both Emacs and ELPA. Putting two different fixes for this issue into Emacs and ELPA to me seems a bad idea, so that suggests something more general would be needed and extending ELPA to allow for "layered" installations by default (site-elpa, elpa-24.x, user-elpa, ...) and delivering core packages via a "built-in" ELPA might becmome an option. Distribution of bug fixes is actually a seperate issue that could be solved in other ways, IMHO. Regards, Achim. -- +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+ Wavetables for the Terratec KOMPLEXER: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KomplexerWaves