From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 18:06:16 +0000 Message-ID: <87ha7v9duv.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> References: <52FCD2B4.5080006@yandex.ru> <52FD9F1D.50205@yandex.ru> <83mwhucg1h.fsf@gnu.org> <878ute589i.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83d2iqc84m.fsf@gnu.org> <87wqgxkcr9.fsf@yandex.ru> <834n41db0d.fsf@gnu.org> <52FE2985.4070703@yandex.ru> <831tz5daes.fsf@gnu.org> <8738jlohd6.fsf@yandex.ru> <83txc1bl83.fsf@gnu.org> <5300189A.9090208@yandex.ru> <83wqgv9fbj.fsf@gnu.org> <20140216180712.236069f6@forcix.jorgenschaefer.de> <83sirj9cyp.fsf@gnu.org> <20140217203145.71a849f7@forcix.jorgenschaefer.de> <837g8t8ouc.fsf@gnu.org> <20140219080524.25689b6b@forcix.jorgenschaefer.de> <83k3cr58o2.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1392833216 22753 80.91.229.3 (19 Feb 2014 18:06:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 18:06:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Jorgen Schaefer To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 19 19:07:04 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WGBXx-0004eu-Ni for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 19:07:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32873 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WGBXx-0001UC-9V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:07:01 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45460) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WGBXp-0001Sf-R9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:06:58 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WGBXj-0006Vh-6H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:06:53 -0500 Original-Received: from cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.234.22]:46283) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WGBXi-0006VT-Tm; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:06:47 -0500 Original-Received: from smtpauth-vm.ncl.ac.uk ([10.8.233.129]) by cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1WGBXh-00024b-Cx; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 18:06:45 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost (jangai.ncl.ac.uk [10.66.67.223]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtpauth-vm.ncl.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s1JI6iUk021923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 19 Feb 2014 18:06:44 GMT In-Reply-To: <83k3cr58o2.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 19 Feb 2014 19:11:57 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 128.240.234.22 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:169771 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > So I really have no idea what is this gripe all about; we just do what > every other project out there does. I can see how it would be easier > for contributors to just use fire-and-forget methods, but that's not > how projects such as Emacs work. > >> Now, do not get me wrong. I am not complaining about these requirements >> (so, re-reading the Wikipedia entry on "red tape" I guess the term was >> badly chosen, sorry, not a native speaker; what's a good term for >> "*lots* of regulation and rigid conformity to formal rules", as opposed >> to "*excessive*"?), but I do think it's important to keep in mind that >> these procedures exist. They do exist for various reasons, usually good >> ones, but they do reduce the appeal of contributing. > > If there are better alternatives that are practical, please describe > them. Since many other projects of comparable size work like we do, I > rather doubt there is a good alternative. And if so, why do we need > to waste time discussing something that cannot be changed? The difference between Emacs and GDB is, I think, that GDB is all quite low-level. Emacs covers a lot more ground from the C guts, to the user facing code and documentation. If I ever submit a patch to the C code base, I'd probably expect a lot of discussion. But, for some parts of Emacs, fire-and-forget is probably much more reasonable. So, here are my two alternatives: 1) Rewrite CONTRIBUTE so that it's info (and thus also webable). Random files in etc are only easy to find iff you have a source tarball. 2) Section out CONTRIBUTE, so those wanting to contribute to the easier parts don't have to read everything. I think this might help to decrease the wall of text experience that it is at the moment. I'll get to it once I've redone the tutorial which I offered to do a while back! Phil