From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 4e23cd0 4/5: * mail/rmail.el (rmail-show-message-1): When displaying a mime message, Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:10:51 +0900 Message-ID: <87h9sldggk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <552130FE.1010101@yandex.ru> <83mw2mn2no.fsf@gnu.org> <5521359D.2000509@yandex.ru> <83fv8emvgq.fsf@gnu.org> <55219139.8040507@yandex.ru> <83oan2l4pk.fsf@gnu.org> <5521B811.8070603@yandex.ru> <83d23hlmia.fsf@gnu.org> <20150407165131.GA2600@acm.fritz.box> <552486A4.2020803@yandex.ru> <5525D65C.8090303@yandex.ru> <83fv89g3dl.fsf@gnu.org> <87mw2he0d7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1428819089 30865 80.91.229.3 (12 Apr 2015 06:11:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 06:11:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, eliz@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 12 08:11:20 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YhB71-0006EL-Mi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 08:11:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44486 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YhB70-0005AQ-QH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 02:11:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46703) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YhB6x-0005AJ-0N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 02:11:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YhB6v-0006zH-W5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 02:11:14 -0400 Original-Received: from shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.161]:33028) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YhB6r-0006wT-RL; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 02:11:10 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E2CC1C38D6; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:10:51 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 63BD6120EC9; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:10:51 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta34) "kale" 83e5c3cd6be6 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.161 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:185321 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > > but the problems Richard and Alan are encountering are soon > > solved by those who study a little bit, and establish some > > discipline in performing what they've learned. > > Your tendency to belittle people is showing. "Belittle"? I stated a fact which applies to millions of git users. I hardly think anybody will think less of you because I stated it! You and Alan have made a choice to try to continue using a workflow designed for a different tool, which is more or less incompatible with git as distributed by its maintainers. There's nothing wrong with that if that's what you want to do, but you will experience problems until either you establish a more adapted discipline, or you modify your instance of the tool so that it is adapted to you. I've exerted substantial effort both on- and off-list to suggest more adapted workflows and to figure out how to implement the workflow I now understand you to want. The former is easy, but you rejected that suggestion, and I found the latter rather difficult and the ideas about implementation I was able to propose unsatisfying. I nevertheless hope my suggestions toward implementing your preferred workflow will be of some use to you. > > There's nothing wrong with wanting your tools to be adapted to > > you, of course, but if you want to cooperate with others, > > sometimes you need to compromise with the shared tools. > > You have found an excuse to be callous about the trouble this > particular tool causes. Tools that behave as designed don't cause trouble of themselves. Misuse of those tools is what causes trouble. I understand that you and others think it is poor design, but I and many others disagree. > Do I see you gloating about it? I think so. Hardly. I'm sad. I'm not interested in seeing you or Alan suffer, but despite all the Sturm und Drang, I still believe you would be better off, and Emacs would be better off, if you had spent as much effort on learning the tool as you have on complaining about the tool and attributing ill-will to others who only wanted to help you learn good ways to use the tool. I'm sorry that we failed to understand your requirements, but as often happens the people who best understand the tool are enthusiastic and evangelistic about it. I'm especially sad because Emacs Lisp taught me most of what I practically know about working with linked data structures, and I see many analogies between Lisp's lists and git's DAG that have been very useful to me in understanding git. I think it's very unfortunate that the Emacs project has not been using git and exploiting those similarities since it was originally decided to move to a DVCS.