From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: The poor state of documentation of pcase like things. Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2016 03:34:39 +0100 Message-ID: <87h9iunkcg.fsf@web.de> References: <20151216202605.GA3752@acm.fritz.box> <87bn95m9eg.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <5686CDFB.2010105@dancol.org> <83fuygcs5g.fsf@gnu.org> <56886E32.70305@yandex.ru> <83si2f9ve4.fsf@gnu.org> <56889EC3.3040108@yandex.ru> <877fjrkpdf.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <56892334.4000106@yandex.ru> <8760zakb7q.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <56892BDA.6060103@dancol.org> <871t9yk98g.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <568936F0.3060505@yandex.ru> <87wprqitj5.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <56893C8C.3060200@yandex.ru> <87oad2irtd.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <5689456A.1010601@yandex.ru> <87egdy8tyz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <56895FDE.4060406@yandex.ru> <8760za8r4a.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451874910 17819 80.91.229.3 (4 Jan 2016 02:35:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 02:35:10 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 04 03:35:01 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aFuz6-0007IM-Uh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2016 03:35:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43609 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFuz6-00023d-8z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 21:35:00 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42262) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFuz1-00023X-Ev for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 21:34:56 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFuyx-0007O2-9W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 21:34:55 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:55697) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFuyx-0007Nw-2H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 21:34:51 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aFuyv-00078W-HS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2016 03:34:49 +0100 Original-Received: from ip-90-186-0-84.web.vodafone.de ([90.186.0.84]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 04 Jan 2016 03:34:49 +0100 Original-Received: from michael_heerdegen by ip-90-186-0-84.web.vodafone.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 04 Jan 2016 03:34:49 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 46 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-90-186-0-84.web.vodafone.de User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:UCmvrwrmXjotzBckBQ5fJ76FJiw= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:197562 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > >> Elisp manual entry, arguably the decisive reference for use of pcase, > >> actively avoids mentioning ' at all in order not to have to upset its > >> terminology. The reason is that the manual had not been updated after 'VAL had been introduced. It dates from a time where ` was indeed the only way of quoting. > >> This is not helpful, as witnessed by the actual code extracts seen in > >> the Emacs code base and mailing list. > > > > Why don't you suggest an improvement (with a patch)? > > Because I am not the one interested in promoting pcase? Frankly, I > don't even have enough time to get the stuff I am interested in done. I'll try to take care of that stuff. After all, despite of the tone on both sides, I think we came to some conclusions: - The pcase docs must be updated, esp. wrt quoting/ backquote, and missing stuff (e.g. first matching branches' body is executed, remaining branches are ignored). - We should not use it in cases where a different thing (esp. cl-case) exactly fits. "Promoters" should use it sparse in contributions and only in cases where it improves readability or makes the case distinction clearer (given the reader read the documentation). Others should accept that some people find it handy and will use it in such cases in their contributions. - Occurrences in the sources must be revised. The only substantial difference, I think, was whether the design and concept of pcase is useful. I think it's ok when people have different preferences here (like with `loop', which I personally avoid btw). Thanks everyone, Michael.