From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Sergey Organov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU Emacs raison d'etre Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 15:34:00 +0300 Message-ID: <87h7wghxdz.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> References: <5230692c-c665-a330-7a12-e59fa25d97dd@gmail.com> <70bb51fd-447d-928c-4d69-1c9673a44471@online.de> <871rnnvmdx.fsf@red-bean.com> <87pnb7sira.fsf@red-bean.com> <83zha8tluq.fsf@gnu.org> <87v9kwi6ta.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <83wo5ccgg4.fsf@gnu.org> <87lflshxtq.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <83mu68cbbb.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="117156"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: rms@gnu.org, andreas.roehler@online.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, kfogel@red-bean.com, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 16 14:34:35 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jZw1T-000UOl-QJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 May 2020 14:34:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38198 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZw1S-0000Dt-SE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 May 2020 08:34:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48698) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZw0z-0008Ev-4v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 May 2020 08:34:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x12a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12a]:35257) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZw0y-00086V-7t; Sat, 16 May 2020 08:34:04 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id 82so4097672lfh.2; Sat, 16 May 2020 05:34:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=8VrSVS3Ee6cRIJebJVfEGAyTFoCRS8zJ/DdIdSwyKD4=; b=sGa3JQNgDOnsMhjbk7DCgZ5/+miO4zuAGwwBXxe36MQlRDJ+R0vcEfBNDMhqWTZqXK B1PHsWLjzGbrEkKcOKY7B/SI3lL5CuKGAqZy/Qx1gKnrnOj20TugVLOxs/SvsXNlxwA3 xNItlJ1T6g5EWp190/0raW10lIJqsGvRJ7bdGk86dWL+7gFE4fk1bdoZhl291O3TAXhG vFPa3H5SNeI9zyGx0x2iDeF7z33vPK+AhUsFvd4lRwDfEobxYWYRHR0paPnlPVWOXz2i E8eg03eMz81ycoKsqHpRiHTCnIuqICf9aP4B2rzPaQSfUZrdTuU8XZMoTfh1SmVN7VgX LJ7w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=8VrSVS3Ee6cRIJebJVfEGAyTFoCRS8zJ/DdIdSwyKD4=; b=P4Y8H7gBjcfcHLaPXfEgOQILmlG50wRfPhDHHCytUdPvGt09p3SLPNrzLk4hnxJCGY sINCO2/iEpOfE35gN3fCJtmxx5rv/0LMNBkaMcrNE7z5VhlDvpFXMnmNGxKiV+hh3l3y hzyS+0iYrf0ttVee9h6r01YrtQb7hW70cgo7qmGqU977LIA/sQVh7SfOM2Pxw/ORyGJn zBLDR1QcWMEsshmtD9pYHGIOcvxa5bURlicyApJDzN17SfKniDGcIMbiLxcHMfLj5e7N rNCpWXy1LozY5eNnMu/SqEPPBT+Kb5tKti/Uc/hKLU6oT/VRc/8uRYpuAB/qIaE8J0+q m8RA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533rvnfdRN9o6zf+oiGQ5SHFEBY9drunEqD2Rb8gXD8vutPSiDUX 49Q3QzqWnsjp5C/gvfz4klg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzmbRZrhkB5jmt7FDh5yThUI930ZFl90sjGVTlHYAgYtK21I/pM/zvtGjuwwo7hOdaLdJf8Fw== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4823:: with SMTP id 3mr5527567lft.194.1589632441779; Sat, 16 May 2020 05:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from osv.localdomain ([89.175.180.246]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 18sm1671095ljv.107.2020.05.16.05.34.00 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 16 May 2020 05:34:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83mu68cbbb.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 16 May 2020 15:29:44 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::12a; envelope-from=sorganov@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x12a.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250481 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Sergey Organov >> Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 15:24:33 +0300 >> Cc: rms@gnu.org, andreas.roehler@online.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, >> kfogel@red-bean.com, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp >> >> >> And here there are 2 more problems for newbies. They usually expect >> >> pop-up /modal/ dialog to be thrown on them for anything but text input >> >> or moving around. >> > >> > That happens in Emacs for some/many commands invoked via the menu bar. >> >> Then this must be rather easy to achieve for keyboard induced commands >> as well. > > Not really. When the user invokes a command from the menu, we have a > clear signal that the mouse is being used, and therefore can display a > GUI dialog without fear. But when the user types "C-x C-f", how can > we know that he/she expects a dialog box and not a minibuffer prompt? My argument was that newbie never wants minibuffer prompt, so this is not an issue. I mean it'd always be dialog unless "newbie-mode" is turned off. -- Sergey