From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Sacha Chua Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU ELPA package discoverability Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 22:57:30 -0400 Message-ID: <87h7w4oh5x.fsf@sachachua.com> References: <35DBF02E-44D7-41E5-A217-7D6EC84ED221@icloud.com> <4e937898-ae46-710a-cbca-e452a1156fa1@yandex.ru> <2e630dc7-ba1d-e4c9-74b3-4da976db1e82@yandex.ru> <87imglg51l.fsf@gnu.org> <83d06txuv4.fsf@gnu.org> <871rn9l35o.fsf@gnu.org> <83tv05waob.fsf@gnu.org> <874ks5gtca.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="33851"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Bastien , Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org To: Emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 25 04:58:13 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jd3Jd-0008iJ-AS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 04:58:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34212 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jd3Jc-0007Ca-Bb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 24 May 2020 22:58:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43690) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jd3J4-0006nw-BD for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2020 22:57:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-il1-x141.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::141]:42014) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jd3Iz-0007t7-40 for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2020 22:57:37 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-il1-x141.google.com with SMTP id 18so16177536iln.9 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 19:57:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sachachua-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=FUk0ZCH2IndX94bh6f7tgCN9CUO820N+iHDHE3vekQw=; b=u4JXd+LjV3jAp+ip2iPw06NU6t7ptY0irk5jGWNgB9xSuiRHFa9mCy8Mp/Z/LM/O6c vr7mr0KhLzaznOv02lKSlSJ/NI7ex2PyilNp3q/StRizb5K1z8G+YpxGYbNdYFOiFNwR qNDWuel4MhoFcJJ1HLo5bCRtYQx+PuuaP2TWUUdu2efo3eUIYVrTW17ZKNmTupNvE6OV clmBRHeCtDgRnX88RAoVl+ugxnni/h7WeholLiSlPM9FYyvhcIliYSr0A6NN2kxBoQMO NqbO/sRqoZZRqUYgRcOI/Ben0S+jwmGivIAp7hcA+uqFS2yyO94J3sfI7eLCGz9R0Y8p yX9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=FUk0ZCH2IndX94bh6f7tgCN9CUO820N+iHDHE3vekQw=; b=NbgfKbq+SxRKLUFGAhLatyCPalC6QoiGDePCh5Kae+144wqIRsnAIy0rcmEdiXFIwr r+T4pPf7om5CcpTFpW9tnOkHgp2IC+ucLYzGUfeKbNsp2LIYdnSMZ+SoLaGnP56hiL3h eBpQxRqSTnIBpaFOGRlJSZP00717ORdceyMwalQuyKYNUTwvddgCMab0A7N36NR0IJVN APMdSthKnmB9YzuxAkiJ+SUjJLkZRaPf4ViltzQUq50UTgXVyVOxKVPsPLuUmQ37iCWP gRcOvH3Bm8SqKfjBp9jUHLaC1mwSI6p9xwZ2dNtR6GI79qJUvOq/kVH2z89/UJNRgpP6 UDkQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533gCK3n7I4xP2sq4vFdr9zGB3H3HvoYkm1WHl9PjzLig5ISYj+7 aFhteKlDp5lTkNPzIJnOreQbws0WOThT1w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJweWNPvWz/DfsK1jqPKyjxm8w13kZXeB45D8N4307yO63eBIBoWxGHClT4a+6jnps1SxRM90g== X-Received: by 2002:a92:5c06:: with SMTP id q6mr23187893ilb.236.1590375451415; Sun, 24 May 2020 19:57:31 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from sacha-kubuntu ([104.247.230.240]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n22sm6242596ioh.46.2020.05.24.19.57.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 24 May 2020 19:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from sacha-kubuntu.local.sachachua.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sacha-kubuntu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 250A84AA117; Sun, 24 May 2020 22:57:30 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <874ks5gtca.fsf@gnu.org> (Bastien's message of "Sun, 24 May 2020 19:01:41 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::141; envelope-from=sacha@sachachua.com; helo=mail-il1-x141.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251338 Archived-At: Bastien writes: > The splash screen is a way to advertize the "World of Emacs" to users: > IMHO a resource like ELPA fits well with other external resources like > the GNU/Linux page. > To align the message with the menu entry, the link can say "Manage > Emacs packages" while the description would say "Install or uninstall > additional Emacs packages". I imagine that a newbie getting into Emacs because of things like Magit would be excited to see the splash screen or menu item for "Manage Emacs packages," but might be confused by the short list of packages. They might think: "Is that all there is? Is my Emacs broken? Is my setup incompatible with those packages?" Here's a Reddit post from two years ago showing what that confusion might look like: https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/8eweus/installing_a_package_manually/ I wonder if there's a way we could make package-archives customization more discoverable from the list-packages screen. Package Archives is in the Package > Customize list as the third option, after two options that would probably make newbies' eyes glaze over, and it doesn't suggest values to add. It also doesn't make it clear that you should run package-refresh-contents after changing the value, so that might trip up a few people if they expect to see new changes right away. It might be interesting to have something like the checkboxes Ubuntu uses ( https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu ) so that people can quickly select from among the main repositories, with a way to add their own. I'm not sure how that fits into the Customize interface, though... Sacha Chua