From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 17:24:07 +0000 Message-ID: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32752"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Daniel Fleischer Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 26 19:39:20 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mJJLU-0008Ik-M5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 19:39:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57878 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJJLT-0007uq-Bs for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 13:39:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49028) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJJ6s-00080h-8F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 13:24:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:42829) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJJ6p-0005La-Dt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 13:24:13 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8595C240105 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 19:24:08 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1629998648; bh=jmh8Y1ZpuM2ZnIOiXgypZg2LG6i9mfXKLD5vX9Vll7E=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=FZo1zohYJggutVlE7dCvwkTjvaZ9NhrerS5FVlyJIysAAxo7pGYTW6XXmKGnQ/fvb Qms1fWgjKj2aBer1KV1POjIJU0w7x8TeYF42DXQ1AD1km7HIJ1em/XO/ItFoEEgBjj LVntdfu2YhKpUBYc0x2gWrQTMHovEFuJ+ks7VAmyBa/BRYdL64AHAQiqhwdFA+ulqk s9XIBN28rWSjYaXd0r8iyHPYwSLw9yTkLhfwuK6CK53h7W6vTWUOzMxLBfZXs9LBhQ KAqJnYmD9F9XASyNeipteWF1kuy2urMV1sqpAKiqjot39abnTORCzoZxaZTg1dmLYG xJwgsIxClY6sQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4GwV7q4cXVz6tm5; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 19:24:07 +0200 (CEST) Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB In-Reply-To: (Daniel Fleischer's message of "Thu, 26 Aug 2021 19:20:36 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273054 Archived-At: Hi, Daniel Fleischer writes: > One issue which I think is important is the move to a new VC system, > e.g. Gitlab. I started reading the relevant threads and I'm not sure > where the issue stands today. Let me recap the benefits: > > 1 The need for new people to join the community and help. Newer > (younger) people will be more familiar with the newer VC platforms > (github/lab and similar). These are not only developers but regular > users who want to report an issue (bug) or suggest a feature. Shouldn't it be easier to send an email than create an account, navigate some web UI and fill in some form? The same goes for patches. Git{Lab,Hub} usually requires leaving the development context, to prepare a patch online, that requires "forking", more navigation and more fora. Just today I tried preparing a "pull request" on GitLab and didn't manage to do so, because it insisted on merging the commit into my own repository, no matter what I did. Just attaching a git patch seems much easier. > Lowering the bar for participation is the key to growing Emacs and > the community. I think that showing people that they biases against mailing list development might be illegitimate would be a viable alternative. > 2 Having the code + issues + discussions in the same place as opposed > to now, where the code and discussions (lists) are in 3 different > places (Savannah, Gnu mailing lists and Gnu bug tracker). With a > modern VC system, one can jump easily between issues, discussions, > code commits back and forth easily as opposed to now, where if it's a > bug you can use its number to search lists and commits messages but > if it's a discussion, it's not "connected" to anything. Correct me if I am wrong, but all the discussions are at least mirrored on the mailing lists. Savannah is just for project management and the GNU bug tracker uses the mailing list too. It is more uniform too, as everything is just a mail-message, not part of a forcefully linearized thread. Commenting on a issue, "pull request" or a patch is always just responding to a message. That being said, I wouldn't mind prettier web interface for the mailing list (I think that the Guix project is doing well on that front). > Possible issue: > > 1 Being able to use Emacs for all these needs. One way is being able to > interact with the VC system using emails, i.e. issues, features, > discussions should have a nice and efficient email interface in > addition to using a website. Another approach is using the wonderful > Magit and Forge packages. Forge currently is lacking the discussions > feature but has a very good git + pull-requests + org-mode > integration abilities. I remember Sourceforge being suggested as an alternative to Gitlab, but the software is currently still in a beta stage (AFAIR). > 2 Changing processes, how people operate. Whether it's the technical > aspect of a pull-request approval vs. patch submission to the more > conceptual change of dealing with "issues" representing bugs, ideas, > feature requests or general discussions instead of mailing lists. > These changes shouldn't be too disruptive. However I do believe a > small price has to be paid in order to go from one local minima of > effort in a given practice to another, hopefully better local minima. > > Does this describe well the current situation? > What areas need attention in order to facilitate the change? > > Thanks for any feedback. > > Daniel Fleischer > -- Philip Kaludercic