From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 16:53:25 +0800 Message-ID: <87h7238hoa.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <8735dn30if.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmgr8m3t.fsf@yahoo.com> <87tu631ktq.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21679"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Gregory Heytings , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Payas Relekar Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 23 10:54:49 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oQPgP-0005Y8-Fl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 10:54:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40122 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQPgO-0007GF-D9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 04:54:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46234) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQPfL-0006aI-5n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 04:53:43 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic316-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.187.148]:43461) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQPfJ-0000Hv-6Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 04:53:42 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1661244817; bh=H5rjPhnhVFKVjlZr3O9Kiqoh1frlI0s3r/OKgvxgD3g=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=YGjhr0ZC5QU1v4BkbeFMF3WOEjxI5BJWiufKlDYI9Pxcg5iW6wY0G/uzI9Lj1nANSPdUf2IXzmwIXvAqklIVbp5Ev6bMIhUbGPPiXOONpnkl9YtcJKnsq8biweH+zmH9GTghvAsCGgVSJGVyupqL9h8P0bYV1k3iY0EBfT7ITkXOi7F7GAmuc/K8M+wB/pdbqqE4fW9hUaGIckTmmDsMTztqQqjiyVwLOEs1xmrCEM0+wunKcHAMbO/47LxBWTgKu4ozlGUEPuOE6Y39tK+xtrVx+UpdkScUmA4jPA0wsvV7qlxV+xLQsAiwhYO11I97PMlaZ/+PWGDTnNuXxvC7Aw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1661244817; bh=nDkm60QORmpP3SuIRJaM3EUAzYo8rOhDJ37d7ivAJxq=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=GqF5hnmVXWux9XATbi+4RKWAV0JKAnDijaqdI8R87tcLAuok+KefCHYpscfsuZWgots3b/l2D9rxwdRPbnxaSAlL7Os4GzAzoyoeM20Qzwn0o7A7MR5XxKj9NPtYhZe5BkOc4A2F8YSZSffT+yRUfA9giozqZopllQgbvHPWzd6hJGLU0TV1Uj5Gt48+wHHV9H7bx4snPjLeUummGPgsMF1A+KCJUmT3VOa3hG70UvLqDFEQ8AqONvVtrKVuTcPo+TYfY1a1aAdHCRxlUAUZoqwsy+jsULfkXhh25dPkeDP7nrPmfNaXxNQzi+NXztId7GKBwHiYAY/RjgWrIIyzoA== X-YMail-OSG: hwRbRE8VM1lBdUjvRRwf2Ie7bhQuRyqt2hiYGAzmH5QKI4Xsywrabanjv9Z1LGG W2r3RSMOr4c6_4LqGaV0WILxwSUYvljI8XUMqQkFb5Akqr8sJgoe.XbJrJVU9n0_vCwMd563BZHh pct6cOxRuygQ8NabSrZIr.wkUAbZb_.t6bnh2nfM1msYiazX0UfzRNzKL9WlQu479Z.LcNvHRD2l UGzqMvLVDv4vuMAev4Tw5K.B5f7mWnNNpizt4_YTB48TN.ZjqLQsoOcv5YYx3w8Q2MTfV4nUIOvH Eyh_gY_Wz_Wqz10nZ097Ii2eKDeMnWBFRjV6Ko9GyB2f_xzeakzfdcqMxq891NWHa4krWzLTfSBN W0gbYSn12zRyCrMJv4NYmwcyaKU96dh9.7rkoyLn8Aw7iNLwCl7F85VUssU6AuLK1xOqaZ93JilH GDSWq1U4ErcAOBle.rPVScUbd8xwtTBroW_2o2wokbO36IlGG7T7FRf4O8p13aI.scSo2A95kk.h lo9Z4TGkZUFy7I5LJBOvmfmWuQkJ8mEpTnsZDRaJMcSBRDBahdis.bbIiJrfefCnZO1cEU0ndZfp L9dxpjhiicM8qfyhAYKqne4C3pF0sb1xTwgJnGQYb5qhrok9tIMsnMgoCHfQVLbu8lD6cRvGbn7x shbD2JlRuaGOsWe7HgWQ_3qsjvIjEUSkZ2Tvw.W2lL5YLT2pudEa_aB9he.M8VHPxKnGLtoRVQVJ UtmizxG32UkzkS5y9Cn6zGb.mZ3BVEB7WqF0IaDhYzeWdrw0Yvg4xcz3J10HY9CUIfzolDu8v.0t Sq6z4GZF5FQ_GHMV4AAKFOUcW9TFWjaEKGZrs2CMPB X-Sonic-MF: Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic316.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 08:53:37 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-6f58cd9b5-fkkv4 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 3dc5e7c5b34af79473867b8b7244bee9; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 08:53:33 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87tu631ktq.fsf@gmail.com> (Payas Relekar's message of "Tue, 23 Aug 2022 12:51:50 +0530") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20560 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.187.148; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic316-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293855 Archived-At: Payas Relekar writes: > Indeed, I checked and you are correct. That puts X11 demise on 10+ year > timeline. What makes you think the GTK developers will be able to dictate what people will use? Remember that if the world revolved around their decisions, we would all be clowns occupying a peanut gallery. > That is unfortunate. Considering HiDPI + mixed DPI support is > non-existent in X11, I was really hoping Wayland feature bulimia to be > solved/on-way-to-be-solved problem by now. Why do you think that's so? On X, the X server says nothing about the scale of a window, screen, or the part of a screen taken by a monitor. A program can simply rescale itself as it moves across different outputs. I think the reason people think HiDPI support doesn't work on X is that it doesn't work in Xwayland, which is strictly a problem with that, and is not seen on bare-metal X. > That is fair. From what I understand Wayland support on non-Linux > systems is still imperfect at best so X11 support is here to > stay. But, can we have it as non-default and get away with it for the > most part? No. AFAIK it was recently discovered that less than 10% of Firefox users on non-macOS Unix systems were using Wayland or Xwayland. > Apologies for simple (and possibly stupid) questions, but GTK > situation has more thorns than I previously thought. Considering WSL2 > will have more people using Emacs via Wayland/Pgtk making defaults > more important. I don't think supporting the PGTK build on MS Windows is a good idea at all.