From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: llm Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2023 12:25:53 +0000 Message-ID: <87h6o7sd2m.fsf@localhost> References: <87v8d0iqa5.fsf@posteo.net> <87cyz3vaws.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7122"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: jporterbugs@gmail.com, ahyatt@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 06 14:25:59 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qdrbb-0001Yq-BW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 14:25:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdraq-0004Rt-MX; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 08:25:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdrao-0004RR-Nr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 08:25:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdrak-0002pH-MM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 08:25:10 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17F6D240103 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2023 14:25:03 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1694003103; bh=MIZaEdhgsIYPlkNnqZrdwiPyxB/vN1UAPhF5C9JkA4Y=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=ThpS6rYpPSCDf/TlTFGP257P2zvcD+Kh9YV7NflxAOdvaqA/iRAkJ5i6tL9knsywL UhE0s/6D0spnWDYT60G8O7RLI4bEXMGPBtW10urGvHJJg/j+gzDXxFm0KpMRZdFtDN teDYogkYT1Jj5PiHU7raVBIS9jhbUDgDGhIu7hlhpaxyFFd0TJ8RKTZFQiLRIQlGkq L3kR/4aMniHz6fh0tpsSvUnEKQ71lvaPvQbsJrk5lRhzkNCT/jJPD6n2df+brUO2bS VKw5eVnSfajIP6fKbOZphwFA9rE9JpE9yl+YRO89XdE+md49SeAqhwgwz4tE4emJKY rxnQQUnXqQeDg== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RghQk4FMhz9rxN; Wed, 6 Sep 2023 14:25:02 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310189 Archived-At: [ I am not sure if this discussion is still relevant enough for emacs-devel. Let me know if we need to move to emacs-tangents or other more suitable place ] Richard Stallman writes: > > > As for LLMs that run on servers, they are a different issue entirely. > > > They are all SaaSS (Service as a Software Substitute), and SaaSS is > > > always unjust. > > > > > > See https://gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html > > > for explanation. > > > I do not fully agree here. A number of more powerful LLMs have very > > limiting hardware requirements. For example, some LLMs require 64+Gbs of > > RAM to run: > > That is true, and it is unfortunate. There may be no practical way > to run a certain model except for SaaSS. Clarification: that might still be possible if one runs LLMs on remote virtual or dedicated server. Such server is technically not what the user _owns physically_. However, there is a freedom running arbitrary version (including modified version) of the LLM on such a server. Also, it looks like hosted servers running libre software are becoming a rather common thing. For example, I have seen BBB servers offered for rent: https://owncube.com/bbb_en.html and even LLM servers: https://ownai.org/ The problem is that the extent users are allowed to control that running software is more limited compared to what one can enjoy with full SSH access or in a physically owned machine. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at