From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: visible-frame-list (and PGTK) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 19:24:30 +0800 Message-ID: <87h6mta1ld.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <87h6mta1ld.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="554"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 14 13:25:46 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qrcmA-000AUY-4I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 13:25:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qrclK-0004E3-3H; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 07:24:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qrclI-0004CK-Rq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 07:24:52 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic316-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.187.148]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qrclG-0003AM-J8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 07:24:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1697282688; bh=re1iTdDhG/xM4a5SClu7vLealICk50UI1SspptplzHg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=kFY6mXt6B6GSSkNoqQmg2hfCynEjBP8htxP7c5CXaabaSsaTuA9gps0dguBlXVqjG7CERnsLDbMyoaFZ7qAZhSh1MjuWyE7gSzDyCBAlnYAPQHvtlDzGA8iLTgc+JOqHNCcx0zW0q7TYbXjccBv78JY7GI4WEY6Dvh7GQ+FQQrzaJxbU98fkOkmdYDjbTwjv8H0DLHDqnOmjpbm2qUuu8cgss6EyIzaTDFTeypgH065fW/UOkogiLs/QJPTyTfU1+jBvQtPSMRhffVuw3ge56gPnpgaabMMU33HHZsJIIMS/wlfGGDllLpcFlYLe4DgytYXz+7/x+3PKWypERqcZ3w== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1697282688; bh=Y1hmT+pU1QEXYYYwcEUhPrYaBXLhjUUFldP/eOGmTGh=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=TjFhqs5gdTLaHyNXJHGjHTTjWm/jG66OR1lPQa79ir4Q6tt8WgZpFmUvIYPPRuZpwZBbV7sRlziiimdad8eDMcux18Oyl2ZoMxQikJC05W6Ifo9hDRfuHNPJWnUJVrpTphQTRzcXDobRnEVv9LwlvM8QUAg/POy1LmxZAAnYwIAX42vPfTQ0/EBusrIFWShnXaJLtTmPqJSxB6a4S9yFde6ab7CtN4C+DfGzaRe+t0JqKhodFCmW7qd5vNAgtdN1LRFC7qmPhxFlggo0JaCgEODeOe7ndFvwP7LmSx0pP2d3bfD7tUF4UJ9x2ppa/iIJLZpBRhLRxW58sO2OGKK7kg== X-YMail-OSG: SWU2lyEVM1lmhn.sPG6y6VrR_dO7w7akPuDIGlFxOONYnHqWsMPfV_WQPABi5v4 CNyWWq5Exutcr7wLrSGjeQV83OXiiDM6O8ShQA8sZPrJrfLNrejQggbGTMczi6lJas3rw_Zrx1u1 21xTHV88ENgLEpzhGokDtcMu0_s2Pnb3Al8BIbw0n7EgXarCW6BbB1DwQ6eJ06sfs4zbjdE1cGnE SDakTEoyn8auxPVXXUf_cYLdJinrQ.hKjzkBqXrjNYBqvrlOSA_6cGzlZDGC6ykJAly50FdjFKAS CuZjP_aikl40H2oU_buOFwkWgTw6yTIa38A7Ua7vMP8XLx2hFg_Oxn1Xo6guiUehnvYRC2ZNj6Ew FbtqMpAm2kmsl29FBJhMIgUK0j3Y6L6QieWVEM_OJhlG2fONzGLy.dj5miIfOh1sSc7tA15iDoqp XSj.GZ8mpa.K98cj_qj9fhAF4rH_DJFki_2o9hbh_0SeRulUbLYMqafgCIPUwvDIFyM5s0JoGpVi LTdbs.mkmBXIs_NmNnfKWx6a4fcpV7C7kf4jucAngrRqZuoyb6rjEpWAr0Y3vFs.vX2jyYrzMYka OtntnS.bxaDRatm2MUD_KdUgp_Jh_.Tfjzwy.gNfO8rOaYhtj3U0.nvaDBIDRZAvA_NbVYau5XEm U4tU.__kkKRKIEV9Ck18yWqck68TXbF5KzEG6MBlhj4qs7sJl7SgeyFFEkYbhAmNAt92vcZAQVsr dV3P2IRLwS_DR2XBQFCueXkvNxa7Ok0InOH8Z9iVSDx434ou6VyQrWRyftsN0RAC24A5UauPpUrS VWtNLUmxJAJIttV1QfSJGAlOYgyh1AaadwoHrjKDDu X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 20e7c551-a274-4799-9b0a-0884194c3fa0 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic316.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 11:24:48 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-57f7997989-mcz6s (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID f43b553f095203e10eb41d1cf20da39d; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 11:24:41 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87il79h4ex.fsf@> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar"'s message of "Sat, 14 Oct 2023 13:41:42 +0300") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21797 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.187.148; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic316-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311446 Archived-At: Bj=C3=B6rn Bidar writes: > Does `(visible-frame-list)` take the current virtual desktop into > account? Under X, yes. > If so does this also work when Emacs is build with PGTK? This doesn't function under Wayland, for the reasons you mentioned. > Would it make sense to adapt Wayland protocols that don't exist in GTK > in this case? KDE has a protocol[2] for this and Wlroots is > considering the same, > Compositors such as Swap already having such functionality in their > ipc.[3][4] I'm quite averse to this prospect, inasmuch as it amounts to shouldering the heavy burden of maintaining up-to-date copies of each of these protocols, one exceptionally pronounced under Wayland because they are subject to incompatible changes or deletion without a moment's notice. Nowhere is this seen to worse advantage than in that GNU/Linux distributions seldom provide headers for these extension protocols, responsibility for which devolves upon their clients. No doubt with the presumption (and upshot) being that these protocols are only employed by a select few clients, to wit such toolkits as GTK, Qt and their ilk. Seriously, open in your web browser: http://wayland.app/protocols/ Observe that among all these protocols, only those designated "core" or "stable" accord clients some guarantee of stability. KDE and WLR protocols are conspicuously absent from that list, and all bear a surprising predilection to abrupt change and obsolescing. Furthermore, they only service a subset of Wayland users. Ultimately, Wayland users must come to terms with the restrictions imposed by their choice of window system; it is not within our power to assuage or otherwise mitigate them. All things considered, being incapable of listing visible frames in Emacs is no great calamity when that capacity is also withheld from all other programs, who seem to fare reasonably under such circumstances...