From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bastien Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: position on changing defaults? Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 00:10:31 +0000 Message-ID: <87fxv467bc.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> References: <200803050637.m256bXL3008361@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <87hcfkdhqk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87d4q8sq9c.fsf@jurta.org> <873ar47n28.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87r6eorams.fsf@jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1204762289 2144 80.91.229.12 (6 Mar 2008 00:11:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 00:11:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chong Yidong , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 06 01:11:55 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JX3i5-0007kN-PY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 01:11:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JX3hY-0000m3-64 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:11:12 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JX3hT-0000kr-6Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:11:07 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JX3hR-0000j5-AQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:11:06 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JX3hR-0000iw-3m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:11:05 -0500 Original-Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.185]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JX3hQ-0004TX-E8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:11:04 -0500 Original-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id f5so1136485nfh.26 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:11:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:sender; bh=ul9N8o/5pkBa6VKWUhbuKMIg0VZSK33F8l5R0GjFmBE=; b=kau5AnTgyhQLU85tB0ZlJHZGfBzw7w61oiMR58t76a7iFIOSuDY++GfmRtEUhOWWP85bGvfsl3rWHJWcykDuzphDyxq+QDnZhYk1I4eK0X+I63mlC8pptoNtMG9BfnuoI1JOcM1KANKpZhVf+GF6n30UkBqbXz0HzH0zlChgPlA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:sender; b=Ahhx3z2ZWev5gVgSF1Iw4bQ5TgkBiuqVrd2YLIA5QLuuDr/LCC2qNKoMXoy4f77TQ+f9/Ouh4Ijad+gM1RaCywdXUFktjNBwE/MyBfgbBZnrpBgYLhcD70hTB81y/sFJ6WWHmTKqUP5rIOftmlsujAJ5BWq8wKJC16R39jR8A9M= Original-Received: by 10.82.118.2 with SMTP id q2mr9120734buc.27.1204762262991; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:11:02 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from bzg.ath.cx ( [81.99.213.34]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b33sm2997494ika.5.2008.03.05.16.10.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:11:01 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by bzg.ath.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6965E1575BD; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 00:10:31 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <87r6eorams.fsf@jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Thu, 06 Mar 2008 01:54:09 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110007 (No Gnus v0.7) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:91447 Archived-At: Juri Linkov writes: >>>>> - selection with Shift-arrow keys >>>> >>>> I think this would be a good default. If someone is willing to make a >>>> patch that refactors this code from cua-mode into simple.el, it would >>>> be worth considering. >>> >>> Unfortunately, I see no way of implementing this in simple.el without >>> using pre-command-hook and post-command-hook. It seems this can be >>> implemented only in C in the function that reads characters. >> >> On top of this, Shift-arrow keys are already in use in org-mode. > > This is not a reason to make Emacs unfriendly to newbies that expect > Shift-arrow keys to work like in other programs. Could you change > these keys in org-mode to e.g. Meta-arrows or something? Meta-arrows are also quite busy. But there is a mechanism in Org to handle conflicts with keybindings of cua-mode.el or windmove.el: ,----[ org-replace-disputed-keys ] | Non-nil means use alternative key bindings for some keys. | Org-mode uses S- keys for changing timestamps and priorities. | These keys are also used by other packages like `CUA-mode' or `windmove.el'. | If you want to use Org-mode together with one of these other modes, | or more generally if you would like to move some Org-mode commands to | other keys, set this variable and configure the keys with the variable | `org-disputed-keys'. | | This option is only relevant at load-time of Org-mode, and must be set | *before* org.el is loaded. Changing it requires a restart of Emacs to | become effective. `---- We could change the default value for this (and `org-disputed-keys') when required. But I guess many org-ers will revert the change to get the Shift-arrow keys have their original behavior. The paradox here is that it seems many org-ers are also Emacs newbies. -- Bastien