From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Johannes Weiner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Release plans Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:20:30 +0200 Message-ID: <87fxp05kkh.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> References: <10697146.3630221218551689983.JavaMail.www@wwinf4615> <20080812171404.GB7999@muc.de> <20080813092057.GA3010@muc.de> <20080814083817.GA2593@muc.de> <877iak7xfp.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> <873al79akr.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> <48A5BAD7.8030302@emf.net> <87od3p6tu3.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1219209684 5870 80.91.229.12 (20 Aug 2008 05:21:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:21:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, lord@emf.net, ams@gnu.org, joakim@verona.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 20 07:22:16 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KVg9A-0005aN-CG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:22:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43454 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KVg8C-0002jb-Kv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:21:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KVg86-0002ip-4V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:21:10 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KVg84-0002hh-Gk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:21:08 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=41512 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KVg84-0002hX-9T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:21:08 -0400 Original-Received: from saeurebad.de ([85.214.36.134]:59123) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KVg7t-0000EG-8X; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:20:57 -0400 Original-Received: by saeurebad.de (Postfix, from userid 107) id 321F92F00CA; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:20:51 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (217-68-166-87.dynamic.primacom.net [217.68.166.87]) by saeurebad.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87AE92F00C8; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:20:50 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Richard M. Stallman's message of "Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:47:57 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.1.3 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:102708 Archived-At: Hi Richard, "Richard M. Stallman" writes: > It's enough if there is one person providing a patch to run non-free > extensions. > > Such all-or-nothing thinking isn't valid. It is clear that if some > sort of add-on depends on people to patch Emacs, that obstacle will > discourage its adoption. This will in turn discourage the development > of such add-ons. That doesn't absolutely assure no one will develop > them, but does help. Sure. Then make that something more convenient. Consider a distribution of GNU Emacs that is prepatched with a module loader and comes with an installation script that fetches the non-free library from an URL. Or something similar if this has legal issues. Or don't distribute a fork but go for the library and executable wrapper approach you can stack on top of a vanilla GNU Emacs, utilizing the process interface. My point is that even today you can implement something that extends Emacs in non-free ways with rather low efforts and provide a product that is easy to use. I highly doubt that people who have the idea of distributing non-free extensions to Emacs would wait until it grows a module loader. It's not needed. But a module loader probably encourages hackers and not so much immoral individuals/companies whos primary goal is to sell their software rather than hacking the good hack. Like I said, as a person keen on technical stuff I refuse to work around limited interfaces but would prefer improving them. If my goal is not a cool mechanism but getting my nonfree software distributed, I don't need the module loader and can already do that. Hannes