* new Emacs HELLO file??
@ 2009-08-28 21:27 kawabata.taichi
2009-08-28 22:19 ` Juri Linkov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread
From: kawabata.taichi @ 2009-08-28 21:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1626 bytes --]
Dear sirs,
This is just a quick thought and proposal to replace Emacs etc/HELLO file.
As Emacs 23 fully supports UCS/Unicode now, etc/HELLO file may be
extended, so that it covers the languages and scripts that had not been
covered by the previous Emacs versions.
Also, HELLO file may contain symbols and rare or ancient scripts, so
that it contains at least one character from each UCS/Unicode blocks.
That would help Emacs users to quick-check which fonts their Emacsen are
missing.
I've collected the "Hello" entries from various on-line dictionaries
over the Internet (especially omniglot.com is useful). Languages are
selected so that at most two or three languages are shown for each
script (except Latin script, which has several significant languages).
I gathered scripts that I could not find "Hello" entries to separate
entries, and classified them by writing directions.
The proposed etc/HELLO file attached below may contain some
inappropriateness or mistakes, which I appreciate if someone could point
out or fix. Also, most of script samples merely line up the characters.
Refining them to meaningful text is also appreciated.
=====================
The quickest way to view all characters in this HELLO.txt file is to
install "Code2000" font, Mr. George Douros's Unicode Symbol font, "MPH
Damase 2D" font and Cyrillic font by BukyVede. That would cover most of
Unicode 5.1 characters. Beside them, specific Tibetan, Tagalog, Arabic
Supplement, Sinhalese and Sundanese font fill the gap. Still, Font for
"New Tai Lue", "Balinease", "Lepcha" and few other script seems not
available freely for now.
[-- Attachment #2: HELLO.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 11422 bytes --]
This is a list of ways to say hello in various languages.
(For symbols and some scripts, only sample texts or characters are shown.)
Languages and scripts are classified by writing directions.
1. Scripts written from left to right.
LANGUAGE (NATIVE NAME) HELLO
---------------------- -----
Ainu (アイヌ イタㇰ) イランカラㇷ゚テ
Amharic (አማርኛ) ሠላም
Armenian (Հայերէն) բարև
Bengali (বাংলা) নমস্কার
Braille ⠓⠑⠇⠇⠕
Burmese (မ္ရန္မာ) မင္ဂလာပာ
C printf ("Hello, world!\n");
Cantonese (粵語 / 廣東話) 早晨 / 你好 / 喂
Cherokee (ᏣᎳᎩ ᎧᏬᏂᎯᏍᏗ) ᎣᏏᏲ
Chinese (中文 / 普通话 / 汉语 / 漢語) 你好, 您好
Comanche (Nu̶mu̶ tekwapu̶̲) Marú̶awe!
Cree (ᓀᐦᐃᔭᐍᐏᐣ / ᓀᐦᐃᔭᐤ) ᐊᑕᒥᐢᑳᑐᐃᐧᐣ
Czech (čeština) Dobrý den
Danish (dansk) Hej / Goddag / Halløj
Deseret (𐐼𐐯𐑅𐐨𐑉𐐯𐐻 𐐰𐑊𐑁𐐩𐐺𐐯𐐻) 𐐸𐑩𐑊𐐬
Dutch (Nederlands) Hallo / Dag
Dzongkha (རྫོང་ཁ) སྐུ་གཟུགས་བཟང་པོ
Emacs emacs --no-splash -f view-hello-file
English /ˈɪŋɡlɪʃ/ Hello
French (français) Bonjour / Salut
Georgian (ქართველი) გამარჯობა
German (Deutsch) Guten Tag / Grüß Gott
Greek (ελληνικά) Γειά σας
Greek, Polytonic Ἐμπρός! (on phone)
Gujarati (ગુજરાતી) નમસ્તે
Hindi (हिंदी) नमस्ते ।
Inuktitut (ᐃᓄᒃᑎᑐᑦ) ᐊᐃ / ᐊᐃᓐᖓᐃ
Italian (italiano) Ciao / Buon giorno
Japanese (日本語) 今日は。 / ｺﾝﾆﾁﾊ
Javanese (Jawa) System.out.println("Sugeng siang!");
Kannada (ಕನ್ನಡ) ನಮಸ್ಕಾರ
Kanza (Kaáⁿze) ho / hawé
Khmer (ភាសាខ្មែរ) ជំរាបសួរ / សួស្ដី
Koasati (Kowassá:tit) Cikáʔnó!
Korean (한글 / 韓國語) 안녕하세요 / 안녕하십니까 / 안녕
Lao (ພາສາລາວ) ສະບາຍດີ / ຂໍໃຫ້ໂຊກດີ
Malayalam (മലയാളം) നമസ്കാരം
Marathi (मराठी) नमस्कार ।
Mathematics ∀ p ∈ world • hello p □
Oriya (ଓଡ଼ିଆ) ଶୁଣିବେ
Punjabi (ਪੰਜਾਬੀ) ਸਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ.
Russian (русский) Здра́вствуйте!
Shavian (𐑖𐑭𐑝𐑾𐑯) 𐑣𐑩𐑤𐑴
Sinhala (සිංහල) ආයුබෝවන්
Spanish (español) ¡Hola!
Swedish (på svenska) Hej / Goddag / Hallå
Tagalog (ᜊᜌ᜔ᜊᜌᜒᜈ᜔) ᜋᜊᜓᜑᜌ᜔
Tamil (தமிழ்) வணக்கம்
Telugu (తెలుగు) నమస్కారం
Thai (ภาษาไทย) สวัสดีครับ / สวัสดีค่ะ
Tibetan (བོད་སྐད་) བཀྲ་ཤིས་བདེ་ལེགས༎
Tigrigna (ትግርኛ) ሰላማት
Vietnamese (tiếng Việt) Chào bạn
Yoruba (Yorùbá) Ẹ n lẹ
SCRIPT NAME SAMPLES
---------------------- -----
Balinese (ᬩᬲ ᬩᬮᬶ) ᬓᬔᬕᬖᬗᬘᬙᬚᬛᬜᬝᬞᬟ
Buginese (ᨅᨔ ᨕᨘᨁᨗ) ᨕᨗᨕᨊᨕᨙ ᨔᨛᨄᨒᨚ
Buhid (ᝊᝓᝑᝒᝇ) ᝀᝁᝂᝃᝄᝅ
Carian 𐊠𐊥𐊣𐊹𐊮𐊸 𐊲𐊥𐊰𐊴𐊣𐊺𐊸 𐊽𐊹𐊾𐊩𐊰𐊹𐊸
Carrier (ᑐᑊᘁᗕᑋᗸ) ᗺᗹᗵᗷᗶ
Cham ꨁꨗꨩꨈꨮ
CJK Radicals ⼀⼁⼂⼃⼄⼅⼆⼇⼈⼉ / ⺀⺁⺂⺃⺄⺅⺆⺇⺈⺉
CJK Unified Ideograph Extension-A 㐀㐁㐂㐃㐄㐅㐆㐇㐈㐉㐊㐋㐌㐍㐎㐏
CJK Unified Ideograph Extension-B 𠀀𠀁𠀂𠀃𠀄𠀅𠀆𠀇𠀈𠀉𠀊𠀋𠀌𠀍𠀎𠀏
CJK Unified Ideograph Extension-C 𪜀𪜁𪜂𪜃𪜄𪜅𪜆𪜇𪜈𪜉𪜊𪜋𪜌𪜍𪜎𪜏
Coptic ⲘⲒⲞ.Ⲕ
Cuneiform 𒀀𒀁𒀂𒀃𒀄𒀅𒀆𒀇𒀈𒀉𒀊𒀋𒀌𒀍𒀎𒀏
Cyrillic Supplement ԀԁԂԃԄԅԆԇԈԉԊԋԌԍԎԏ
Cyrillic Extended-A ⷠⷡⷢⷣⷤⷥⷦⷧⷨⷩⷪⷫⷬⷭⷮⷯ
Cyrillic Extended-B ꙀꙁꙂꙃꙄꙅꙆꙇꙈꙉꙊꙋꙌꙍꙎꙏ
Ethiopic Extended ⶀⶁⶂⶃⶄⶅⶆⶇⶈⶉⶊⶋⶌⶍⶎⶏ
Ethiopic Supplement ᎀᎁᎂᎃᎄᎅᎆᎇᎈᎉᎊᎋᎌᎍᎎᎏ
Georgian Supplement ⴀⴁⴂⴃⴄⴅⴆⴇⴈⴉⴊⴋⴌⴍⴎⴏ
Glagolitic ⰙⰂⰍⰌⰇⰟⰘ
Gothic 𐌰𐍄𐍄𐌰 𐌿𐌽𐍃𐌰𐍂 𐌸𐌿 𐌹𐌽
Hanunoo (ᜱᜨᜳᜨᜳᜢ) ᜣᜫᜨᜳᜰᜲ
Kayah Li ꤁꤂꤃꤄꤅
Latin Extended-C ⱠⱡⱢⱣⱤⱥⱦⱧⱨⱩⱪⱫⱬⱭⱮⱯ
Latin Extended-D ꜠꜡ꜢꜣꜤꜥꜦꜧꜨꜩꜪꜫꜬꜭꜮꜯ
Lepcha ᰣᰕᰧᰅ
Limbu ᤀᤁᤂᤃᤄᤅᤆᤇᤈ
Lycian 𐊀𐊁𐊂𐊃𐊄𐊅𐊆𐊇
Lydian 𐤠𐤡𐤢𐤣𐤤
New Tai Lue ᦀᦁᦂᦃᦄᦅᦆᦇ
Ogham ᚛ᚁᚂᚃᚄᚅᚆᚇᚈᚉᚊᚋᚌᚍᚎᚏᚐᚑᚒᚒᚔ᚜
Old Persian 𐎠𐎡𐎢𐎣𐎤𐎥𐎦𐎧𐎨𐎩𐎪𐎫𐎬𐎭𐎮𐎯
Osmanya 𐒀𐒁𐒂𐒃𐒄𐒅𐒆𐒇𐒈𐒉𐒊𐒋𐒌𐒍𐒎𐒏
Phaistos Disc 𐇑𐇛𐇜𐇐𐇡
Phonetic Extensions ᴀᴁᴂᴃᴄᴅᴆᴇᴈᴉᴊᴋᴌᴍᴎᴏ
Phonetic Extension Supplement ᶀᶁᶂᶃᶄᶅᶆᶇᶈᶉᶊᶋᶌᶍᶎᶏ
Rejang ꤰꤱꤲꤴꤵ
Runic ᛒᛁᛏᚱᛅᛁᛋ᛬ᛚᛅᛁᚠᛅ᛬ᚠᚢᛋᛏᚱᛅ᛬ᚴᚢᚦᛅᚾ᛬ᚦᛅᚾ᛬ᛋᚭᚾ᛬ᛁᛚᛅᚾ᛭
Santali (Ol Chiki) ᱟᱲ.ᱟ.
Saurashtra ꢂꢒꢂꢬꢣꢶ
Sundanese ᮀᮁᮂᮃᮄᮅᮆᮇᮈᮉᮊᮋᮌᮍᮎᮏ
Syloti Nagri ꠀꠇꠣꠌꠤꠐꠥꠔꠦ
Tagbanwa (ᝤᝪᝨᝯ) ᝠᝡᝢᝣᝤᝥᝦᝧᝨᝩᝪᝫᝬ
Tifinagh (ⵜⵉⴼⵉⵏⴰⵖ) ⴰⴱⴲⴳⴴⴵⴶⴷⴸⴹⴺⴻⴼⴽⴾⴿ
Tai Le (ᥖᥭᥰᥖᥬᥳᥑᥨᥒᥰ) ᥐᥑᥒᥓᥔᥕᥖᥗᥘᥙᥚᥛᥜᥝᥞᥟ
Ugaritic 𐎀𐎁𐎂𐎃𐎄𐎅𐎆𐎇𐎈𐎉𐎊𐎋𐎌𐎍𐎎𐎏
Vai ꔀꔁꔂꔃꔄꔅꔆꔇꔈꔉꔊꔋꔌꔍꔎꔏ
Yi (ꆇꉙ) ꉷꆀꅇꌫꏦ
\f
2. Scripts written from Right to Left.
LANGUAGE (NATIVE NAME) HELLO
---------------------- -----
Arabic (ةّيبرعلا) مكيلع مالّسلا
Aramaic, Syriac (ܠܫܢܐ ܤܘܪܝܝܐ) ܐܵܝ! / ܐܳܝ!
Dhivehi (ހިވެދި) ކިހިނެތް؟ / ހާލު ކިހިނެތް؟
Hebrew (תירבע) שלום
Persian (فارسى) سلام / درود
Yiddish (ײִדיש / מאַמע לשון) אַ גוטן טאָג
SCRIPT NAME SAMPLES
---------------------- -----
Arabic Supplement ݐݑݒݓݔݕݖݗݘݙݚݛݜݝݞݟ
Cypriot Syllabary 𐠀𐠁𐠂𐠃𐠄𐠅𐠈𐠊𐠋𐠌𐠍𐠎𐠏
Kharoshthi 𐨠𐨡𐨢𐨣𐨤𐨥𐨦𐨧𐨨𐨩𐨪𐨫𐨬𐨭𐨮𐨯
Linear B 𐀀𐀁𐀂𐀃𐀄𐀅𐀆𐀇 / 𐂀𐂁𐂂𐂃𐂄𐂅𐂆𐂇
N'Ko (ߒߞߏ) ߀߁߂߃߄߅߆߇߈߉ߊߋߌߍߎߏ
Old Italic 𐌀𐌁𐌂𐌃𐌄𐌅𐌆𐌇𐌈𐌉𐌊𐌋𐌌𐌍𐌎𐌏
Phoenician 𐤀𐤁𐤂𐤃𐤄𐤅𐤆𐤇𐤈𐤉𐤊𐤋𐤌𐤍𐤎𐤏
\f
3. Scripts written from Top to Bottom
LANGUAGE (NATIVE NAME) HELLO
---------------------- -----
Japanese (日本語) もし〳〵 (Vertical Repeat Mark)
Mongolian (ᠮᠣᠨᠭᠣᠯ ᠪᠢᠴᠢᠭ) ᠰᠠᠢ᠋ᠨ ᠪᠠᠢ᠋ᠨ ᠤᠦ
SCRIPT NAME SAMPLES
---------------------- -----
Kanbun (漢文) 使㆟籍誠不㆚以㆘蓄㆓妻子㆒憂㆗飢寒㆖乱㆙㆑心、
有㆑銭以済㆞医薬㆝。
Manchurian (ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ) ᡶᡠᡯᡳ ᡥᡝᠨᡩᡠᠮᡝ᠈ ᡨᠠᠴᡳᠮᠪᡳᠮᡝ ᡝᡵᡳᠨᡩᡝᡵᡳ
ᡠᡵᡳᠪᡠᠴᡳ᠈ ᡳᠨᡠ ᡠᡵᡤᡠᠨ ᠸᠠᡴᠠ᠉
Phags-pa ꡏꡟ ꡋꡞ ꡏꡟ ꡋꡞ ᠂ ꡏ ꡜꡖ ꡏꡟ ꡋꡞ ᠂ ꡓꡞ ꡏꡟ ᠁
\f
4. Numbers and Symbols
SYMBOL NAMES EXAMPLES
---------------------- -----
Aegean Numbers 𐄀𐄁𐄂𐄇 𐄈𐄉𐄊𐄋𐄌𐄍𐄎𐄏
Ancient Greek Musical Notation 𝈀𝈁𝈂𝈃𝈄𝈅𝈆𝈈𝈉𝈊𝈋𝈌𝈍𝈎𝈏
Ancient Greek Numbers 𐅀𐅁𐅂𐅃𐅄𐅅𐅆𐅇𐅈𐅉𐅊𐅋𐅌𐅍𐅎𐅏
Ancient Symbols 𐆐𐆑𐆒𐆓𐆔𐆕𐆖𐆗𐆘𐆙𐆚𐆛
Arrows ←↑↠↡↰↱⇀⇁⟰⟱⟲⟳⤀⤁⤐⤑⤠⤡⤰⤱⥀⥁
Block Elements ▀▁▂▃▄▅▆▇▐░▒▓▔▕▖▗
Box Drawing ┌┐└┘├┤┬┴
Byzantine Musical Symbols 𝀰𝀱𝀲𝀳𝀴𝀵𝀶𝀷
Combining Diacritical Marks à á â ã ā a̅ ă ȧ ä ả å a̋ ǎ a̍ a̎ ȁ
(For Symbols) a⃐ a⃑ a⃒ a⃓ a⃔ a⃕ a⃖ a⃗
(Marks Supplement) a᷀ a᷁ a᷂ a᷃ a᷄ a᷅ a᷆ a᷇ a᷈ a᷉ a᷊ a᷋ a᷌ a᷍ a᷎ a᷏
Control Pictures ␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏
Counting Rod Numerals 𝍠𝍡𝍢𝍣𝍤𝍥𝍦𝍧𝍨𝍩𝍪𝍫𝍬𝍭𝍮𝍯
Currency Symbols $¢£¤¥₠₡₢₣₤₥₦₧₨₩₪₫₭₮₯
Dingbats ✁✆✇✈✉✌✍✐✒✓✟✠
Domino Tiles 🀰🀲🁂🁒🁛🁢🁤🁴🂄🂍
Enclosed Alphanumerics ①②③④⑴⑵⑶⑷⒈⒉⒊⒋⒜⒝⒞⒟ⒶⒷⒸⒹⓐⓑⓒⓓ⓵⓶⓷⓸
Geometric Shapes ■□▢▣▤▥▦▧▰▱▲△▴▵▶▷◀◁◂◃◄◅◆◇◐◑◒◓◔◕◖◗
Ideographic Description Characters 字=⿱宀子
Khmer Symbols ᧠᧡᧢᧣᧤᧥᧦᧧᧨᧩᧪᧫᧬᧭᧮᧯
Letterlike Symbols ℀℁ℂ℃℄℅℆ℇ℈℉ℊℋℌℍℎℏ
Mahjong Tiles 🀀🀁🀂🀃🀆🀅🀄🀇🀏🀐🀘🀙🀡🀢🀦🀪🀫
Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols 𝐀𝐁𝐂𝐃𝐄𝐅𝐆𝐇𝐈𝐉𝐊𝐋𝐌𝐍𝐎𝐏
Mathematical Operators ∀∂∃∄∈∊∌∑∓√⨀⨁⨂⨃⨐⨠⨡⨢⨰⨱⨲⩀⩁⩂
Mathematical Symbols ⟀⟁⟂⟃⟐⟑⟒⟓⟠⟡⟢⟣⦀⦁⦂⦃⦄
Misellaneous Symbols ☀☁☂☃☄★☆☐☑☒☓☔♀♁♂♃♠♡♢♣♨♰♲♳♴⚀⚁⚐⚒⚓⚠⚡⚢
Modifier Tone Letters ꜀꜁꜂꜃꜄꜅꜆꜇꜈꜉꜊꜋꜌꜍꜎꜏
Musical Symbols 𝆰𝆱𝆲𝆳𝆴𝆵𝆶𝆷𝆸𝆹𝆺𝆹𝅥𝆺𝅥𝆹𝅥𝅮𝆺𝅥𝅮𝆹𝅥𝅯
Number Forms ⅓⅔⅕⅖ⅠⅡⅢⅣⅰⅱⅲⅳↀↁↂↃↄ
Optical Character Recognition ⑀⑁⑂⑃⑄⑅⑆⑇⑈⑉⑊
Superscripts and Subscripts ⁰¹²³²⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹ ₀₁₂₃₄₅₆₇₈₉
Supplemental Punctuation ⸀⸁⸂⸃⸄⸅⸆⸇⸈⸉⸊⸋⸌⸍⸎
Tai Xuan Jing Symbols 𝌰𝌱𝌲𝌳𝌴𝌵𝌶𝌷𝌸𝌹𝌺𝌻𝌼𝌽𝌾𝌿
Technical Symbols ⌀⌁⌂⌃⌐⌑⌒⌠⌡⌰⌱⌲⌳⍀⍁⍂⍐⍑⍒
Yijing Hexagram Symbols ☰☱☲☳☴☵☶☷
\f
5. Special Characters
NAME SAMPLES
---------------------- -----
LANGUAGE TAGS
VARIATION SELECTORS 邊 vs. 邊󠄀, 邊󠄁, 邊󠄂, 邊󠄃, 邊󠄄, 邊󠄅, 邊󠄆, 邊󠄇
\f
Copyright (C) 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This file is part of GNU Emacs.
GNU Emacs is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
the Free Software Foundation, either version 3 of the License, or
(at your option) any later version.
GNU Emacs is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the
GNU General Public License for more details.
You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with GNU Emacs. If not, see <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/>.
;;; Local Variables:
;;; tab-width: 38
;;; End:
[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 118 bytes --]
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
(kawabata.taichi@gmail.com) KAWABATA, Taichi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-28 21:27 new Emacs HELLO file?? kawabata.taichi @ 2009-08-28 22:19 ` Juri Linkov 2009-08-29 2:16 ` 川幡 太一 0 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: Juri Linkov @ 2009-08-28 22:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: kawabata.taichi; +Cc: emacs-devel > This is just a quick thought and proposal to replace Emacs etc/HELLO file. Very nice! And the last part even can be used as a Unicode character palette. However, you removed Esperanto, Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian, Maltese, Nederlands, Norwegian, Polish, Slovak, Slovenian, Turkish, Ukrainian. This is too bad. -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-28 22:19 ` Juri Linkov @ 2009-08-29 2:16 ` 川幡 太一 2009-08-29 3:31 ` Stefan Monnier ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: 川幡 太一 @ 2009-08-29 2:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Juri Linkov; +Cc: emacs-devel 川幡です。 >> In <87hbvrk2df.fsf@mail.jurta.org>, >> Mr. Linkov wrote: > Very nice! And the last part even can be used as a Unicode character palette. > However, you removed Esperanto, Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian, Maltese, > Nederlands, Norwegian, Polish, Slovak, Slovenian, Turkish, Ukrainian. > This is too bad. Whoops. Sorry, they are as follows. Esperanto Saluton (Eĥoŝanĝo ĉiuĵaŭde) Estonian (eesti keel) Tere päevast / Tere õhtust Finnish (suomi) Hei / Hyvää päivää Maltese (il-Malti) Bonġu / Saħħa / merħba Nederlands, Vlaams Hallo / Dag Norwegian (norsk) Hei / God dag Polish (język polski) Dzień dobry! / Cześć! Slovak (slovenčina) Ahoj / Ahojte / Nazdar / Servus Slovenian (slovenščina) Pozdravljeni! Turkish (Türkçe) Merhaba Ukrainian (українська) Вітаю FYI: I've also collected the followings, but I thought putting all of them would make the file too much Latin-script centric, too much difficult for verification. ========================================= Abenaki (Alnôba) Kwai Kwai! Abkhaz (аҧсуа бызшәа) мыш бзи! Afar (`Afa'r af) Mahisse Afrikaans Hallo, Goeie dag Alabama (Albaamo innaaɬiilka) Chíkmàa Albanian (shqip / gjuha shqipe) C'kemi, Tungjatjeta Alsatian Hallo, Güete Tag Aragonese Ola Arapaho (Hinonoéitiit) Héébee, Tous Aromanian / Vlach (Armãneashti) bunã dzua Arrernte Werte Assamese (অসমীয়া) নমস্কার Asturian Hola, Bonos díes Avar (магIарул мацI) ВорчIами! / ЙорчIами! Balkar (малкъар/балкъар) Кюнюгюз ашхы болсун! Basque (euskara) Kaixo Belarusian (Беларуская мова) Вітаю, Дзень добры Bhojpuri (भोजपुरी) प्रणाम / परणाम Bosnian (Bosanski) Dobar dan Zdravo / Merhaba Bulgarian (български) Здравейте Caddo (Hasí:nay) Káhaʔahat! Catalan (català) Salud, Mat an traoù ganeoc'h? Catawba tɑnakɛ! Chamorro Håfa ådai / Buenas Chechen (Нохчийн мотт) Салам Cheyenne (Etsėhesenestse) Haáhe! Chichewa (Chicheŵa) Moni bambo! Chickasaw (Chikasha) Chokma! Chinese, Hakka (客话 / 𠊎话) 爾好 Chiricahua Hadínyaa? Choctaw (Chahta Anumpa) Halito Cimbrian Guuten takh Congo mambo Cornish (Kernewek / Kernowek) Dydh da, Hou, You, Ha, Hou sos Corsican (corsu) Bonghjornu Croatian (Hrvatski) Bok / Čao / Dobar Dan Dalecarian Hej / Høj / Góðdag Dinka (Thuɔŋjäŋ) Ci yi bak Faroese (Føroyska) Hallo / Hey Fijian (Vakaviti) Bula / Drau bula / Dou bula / Nibula Frisian, North (Noordfreesk) Moin / Guundach Frisian, West (Frysk) A goeie/ Hoi / Goeie / Goedei Friulan (furlan / marilenghe) Bundì / Mandi Gaelic, Scottish (Gàidhlig) Halò, Ciamar a tha thu / sibh? Galician (Galego) Ola German, Low (Plattdüütsch) Moin / Goden Dag German, Swiss (Schwyzerdütsch) hallo Greenlandic (kalaallisut) Inuugujoq, kutaa / Haluu Haitian Creole (Kreyòl ayisyen) Bonjou Hawaiian (ʻōlelo Hawaiʻi) Aloha Herero (Otjiherero) Tjike Himba Mono Hungarian (magyar) Szia! / Szép jó napot! Icelandic (Íslenska) Halló / Góðan dag Ido Saluto Igbo nde-ewo Indonesian (Bahasa Indonesia) Selamat siang Interlingua Salute Irish (Gaeilge) Dia duit Iñupiaq (Inupiatun) Halauġikpiñ Jersey Norman (Jèrriais) Salut / Bouônjour Jutish Godaw Karelian Terveh! Kashubian (kaszëbsczi jãzëk) Witôjze Kazakh (Қазақ тілі) Сәлем! / Сәлеметсіз бе? Khanty Вўҫя вуӆа! Kickapoo Aho Kiowa Hā́chò Klingon nuqneH? Komi (коми кыв) чолöм / Видза олан! Kurdish (к’öрди) Sillaw / Ew kata bash / Em kata bash Kwanyama (kuanyama) wa uhala po / meme Latin (Lingua Latina) Heus / Ave / Salve / Salvete Latvian (latviešu valoda) Sveiki Lenape (Lënapei) Hè Limburgish (Lèmburgs) Hallo Lingala (lingála) mbote Lithuanian (lietuvių kalba) Labas / Sveikas / Sveiki Livonian (Līvõ kēļ) Tēriņtš! Lojban coi Luxembourgish (Lëtzebuergesch) Moïen / Salut Macedonian (македонски) Здраво Malay (Bahasa melayu) Selamat pagi / Selamat petang Mansi (Маньси) Пася о̄лэн! Manx (Gaelg / Gailck) Dy bannee diu, Ta shiu/oo cheet! Maori (te Reo Māori) Kia ora / Kia ora rā kōrua Mari, Hill Шӓлӓ! Mari, Meadow (марий йылме) Салам! Mohawk (Kanien'kéha) kwe kwe Moksha (мокшень кяль) Шумбра́т! / Шумбра́тада! Mongolian (монгол) Сайн уу? Nahuatl (nāhuatl) niltze, hao Nama (Namagowab) !gai / oas Navajo (Diné Bizaad) Y´'át'ééh Neapolitan cia, cha Nenets, Tundra Торова! Nepal Bhasa (नेपाल भाषा) ज्वजलपा Nepali (नेपाली) नमस्ते Niuean (ko e vagahau Niuē) faka lofa lahi atu Occitan Bonjorn! Old English Wes hāl / Wesaþ hāl Pig Latin eyhay Pitjantjatjara Wai, Wai palya Plautdietsch Goondach Portuguese (português) Oi! E aí? Tudo bem? Tudo certo? Opa! Rajasthani (राजस्थानी) राम् राम्. Romanian (limba română) Salut Sami, Inari (säämegiella) Tiervâ! Sami, Northern (sámi / sámegiella) Bures! Sami, Southern (saemien giele) Tiõrv! Samoan (Gagana Samoa) Talofa Sardinian (Limba Sarda) Bona die Senegal salamaleikum Serbian (српски) Здраво Shona (chiShona) Mhoro / Mhoroi Sicilian (sicilianu) Ciau Sotho, Southern (seSotho) Lumela / Dumela / Dumelang Stellingwarfs Hoj Sulka marot Swahili (Kiswahili) Habari / Hujambo Tetum (tetun) bondia (morning), botarde (evening) Tok Pisin (Tok Pisin) Gude Tongan (Faka-Tonga) Malo e lelei / Malo e tau lava Tsez (цез мец) АсаламугIалейкум! Tshiluba moyo Tsonga (xiTsonga) minjhani Udmurt (удмурт кыл) Умой! Uzbek (o'zbek tili) Assalomu Alaykum! Venda (tshiVenḓa) I nhlikanhi Veps Tervhen! Volapük Glidis Walloon (walon) Bondjoû Warlpiri Ngurrju mayinpa Welsh (Cymraeg / Y Gymraeg) Helô / Hylô / Shwmae Xhosa (isiXhosa) Molo / Molweni Yappese Mogethin Zulu (isiZulu) Sawubona / Sanibonani Urdu (اردو) السلام علیکم -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- 川幡 太一 (kawabata.taichi@gmail.com) KAWABATA, Taichi ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-29 2:16 ` 川幡 太一 @ 2009-08-29 3:31 ` Stefan Monnier 2009-08-29 5:46 ` Daniel Clemente 2009-08-29 22:43 ` Juri Linkov 2 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2009-08-29 3:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 川幡 太一; +Cc: Juri Linkov, emacs-devel >> Very nice! And the last part even can be used as a Unicode >> character palette. >> However, you removed Esperanto, Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian, Maltese, >> Nederlands, Norwegian, Polish, Slovak, Slovenian, Turkish, Ukrainian. >> This is too bad. > Whoops. Sorry, they are as follows. > Esperanto Saluton (Eĥoŝanĝo ĉiuĵaŭde) > Estonian (eesti keel) Tere päevast / Tere õhtust > Finnish (suomi) Hei / Hyvää päivää > Maltese (il-Malti) Bonġu / Saħħa / merħba > Nederlands, Vlaams Hallo / Dag > Norwegian (norsk) Hei / God dag > Polish (język polski) Dzień dobry! / Cześć! > Slovak (slovenčina) Ahoj / Ahojte / Nazdar / Servus > Slovenian (slovenščina) Pozdravljeni! > Turkish (Türkçe) Merhaba > Ukrainian (українська) Вітаю This looks like a good improvement. Can someone install it, please? Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-29 2:16 ` 川幡 太一 2009-08-29 3:31 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2009-08-29 5:46 ` Daniel Clemente 2009-08-29 22:43 ` Juri Linkov 2 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Daniel Clemente @ 2009-08-29 5:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel El sáb, ago 29 2009 a les 04:16, 川幡 太一 va escriure: > > FYI: I've also collected the followings, but I thought putting all of > them would make the file too much Latin-script centric, too much > difficult for verification. > Not every language you listed uses Latin script. Urdu, for instance, could be interesting to include. In addition there are some errors in your listing. For instance what you listed as Catalan is Breton. In Catalan it would be „Hola, Bon dia“ (Hi, good day“). Bon dia ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-29 2:16 ` 川幡 太一 2009-08-29 3:31 ` Stefan Monnier 2009-08-29 5:46 ` Daniel Clemente @ 2009-08-29 22:43 ` Juri Linkov 2009-08-30 1:16 ` kawabata.taichi 2 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: Juri Linkov @ 2009-08-29 22:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 川幡 太一; +Cc: emacs-devel > FYI: I've also collected the followings, but I thought putting all of > them would make the file too much Latin-script centric, too much > difficult for verification. Omitting part of languages might cause some Emacs users to think that we consider their languages insignificant. OTOH, adding more languages = more loyal Emacs users. I mean the following reasoning of a novice looking at the HELLO file: "Emacs supports my language - good! I'll use it." If it is difficult to verify a group of scripts, we could group languages by Unicode script names ordered by Unicode ranges like in http://www.unicode.org/charts/ You can use language-script mapping in http://www.unicode.org/cldr/data/charts/supplemental/languages_and_scripts.html -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-29 22:43 ` Juri Linkov @ 2009-08-30 1:16 ` kawabata.taichi 2009-08-30 3:12 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-08-30 20:48 ` Juri Linkov 0 siblings, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: kawabata.taichi @ 2009-08-30 1:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Juri Linkov; +Cc: emacs-devel >> In <87fxba1e92.fsf@mail.jurta.org>, Mr. Linkov wrote: > Omitting part of languages might cause some Emacs users to think that > we consider their languages insignificant. OTOH, adding more languages = > more loyal Emacs users. I mean the following reasoning of a novice > looking at the HELLO file: "Emacs supports my language - good! I'll > use it." How about adding new language per request basis?? If I do not misunderstand, main purposes of `HELLO' is to show and check multilingual (multi-script) capability of Emacs and font availability in user's installation. `Removing' existing languages in HELLO file may not certainly be appropriate. As there are thousands of languages in the world, attempting to add every languae unconditionaly may shadow the purpose of HELLO file. > If it is difficult to verify a group of scripts, we could group > languages by Unicode script names ordered by Unicode ranges like in > http://www.unicode.org/charts/ Difficulty comes from verifying if languages collected from the Internet is really correct, or did I properly copy them to the text file. Thanks for pointing me of an error on Breton and Catalan... That's my own mistake. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- (kawabata.taichi@gmail.com) KAWABATA, Taichi ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-30 1:16 ` kawabata.taichi @ 2009-08-30 3:12 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-08-31 3:33 ` Richard Stallman 2009-08-30 20:48 ` Juri Linkov 1 sibling, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-08-30 3:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: kawabata.taichi; +Cc: juri, emacs-devel > From: kawabata.taichi@gmail.com > Accept-Language: ja, en;q=0.6, zh;q=0.3, fr;q=0.1, la;q=0.01, sa;q=0.001 > Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:16:40 +0900 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > As there are thousands of languages in the world, attempting to add > every languae unconditionaly may shadow the purpose of HELLO file. How can extra languages in HELLO shadow its purpose? I don't think we should care about the size of HELLO too much, certainly not as a reason for excluding some languages. People are justifiably proud of their languages, and we don't want to offend anyone, I think. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-30 3:12 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-08-31 3:33 ` Richard Stallman 2009-08-31 16:10 ` kawabata.taichi 2009-08-31 16:16 ` Juri Linkov 0 siblings, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2009-08-31 3:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: juri, kawabata.taichi, emacs-devel > As there are thousands of languages in the world, attempting to add > every languae unconditionaly may shadow the purpose of HELLO file. How can extra languages in HELLO shadow its purpose? If we put the most important things at the top, there is no harm having lots of languages after that. I think there are some 3,000 living languages. If each one takes 10 bytes, that's 30,000 bytes, which is no big deal. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-31 3:33 ` Richard Stallman @ 2009-08-31 16:10 ` kawabata.taichi 2009-08-31 17:07 ` Rupert Swarbrick 2009-08-31 16:16 ` Juri Linkov 1 sibling, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: kawabata.taichi @ 2009-08-31 16:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: juri, Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel > If we put the most important things at the top, there is no harm > having lots of languages after that. I think there are some 3,000 > living languages. If each one takes 10 bytes, that's 30,000 bytes, > which is no big deal. Anther thing I'm worring is a quality. There may be mistakes during the compilation process of HELLO file. (I tried to do double-check by putting all the phrases into the search engine and see if they hit to multiple sources, but not all of languages such attempts are successful.) There may also be informal greetings that some people may feel uncomforatble, but I couldn't know if such thing really occured. If we could hope that people who found inappropriate entry in HELLO.txt would kindly point it out rather than just merely get angered, and if we are not asking an absolute quality on correctness of HELLO file, perhaps we could put all the `Hello' phrases found the Internet. There might be other options, such as to put some statements in top of HELLO file asking people to polish the quality and extend the coverage of languages... -- --------------------------------------------------------- (kawabata.taichi@gmail.com) KAWABATA, Taichi ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-31 16:10 ` kawabata.taichi @ 2009-08-31 17:07 ` Rupert Swarbrick 0 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Rupert Swarbrick @ 2009-08-31 17:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 805 bytes --] kawabata.taichi@gmail.com writes: >> If we put the most important things at the top, there is no harm >> having lots of languages after that. I think there are some 3,000 >> living languages. If each one takes 10 bytes, that's 30,000 bytes, >> which is no big deal. > > Anther thing I'm worring is a quality. There may be mistakes during the > compilation process of HELLO file. (I tried to do double-check by > putting all the phrases into the search engine and see if they hit to > multiple sources, but not all of languages such attempts are > successful.) There may also be informal greetings that some people may > feel uncomforatble, but I couldn't know if such thing really occured. I presume you've seen the following page before? http://users.elite.net/runner/jennifers/hello.htm Rupert [-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 314 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-31 3:33 ` Richard Stallman 2009-08-31 16:10 ` kawabata.taichi @ 2009-08-31 16:16 ` Juri Linkov 1 sibling, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Juri Linkov @ 2009-08-31 16:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, kawabata.taichi, emacs-devel > > As there are thousands of languages in the world, attempting to add > > every languae unconditionaly may shadow the purpose of HELLO file. > > How can extra languages in HELLO shadow its purpose? > > If we put the most important things at the top, there is no harm > having lots of languages after that. I think there are some 3,000 > living languages. If each one takes 10 bytes, that's 30,000 bytes, > which is no big deal. We could put just one character from every script at the top (like can be seen on the logo of Wikipedia). -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-30 1:16 ` kawabata.taichi 2009-08-30 3:12 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-08-30 20:48 ` Juri Linkov 2009-08-31 15:12 ` Chong Yidong 1 sibling, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: Juri Linkov @ 2009-08-30 20:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: kawabata.taichi; +Cc: emacs-devel > How about adding new language per request basis?? If I do not > misunderstand, main purposes of `HELLO' is to show and check > multilingual (multi-script) capability of Emacs and font availability > in user's installation. Yes, the main purpose of HELLO is to check multi-script capability, and it would be simpler if HELLO displayed just a few symbols from every script. But since HELLO contains greetings in various languages now, we risk offending some users by not including their languages in this list. > Difficulty comes from verifying if languages collected from the Internet > is really correct, or did I properly copy them to the text file. This is not a problem since we can easily fix errors when users notice and report them. BTW, I think we should convert HELLO to UTF-8. Do you see any symbol in HELLO not supported by UTF-8? -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-30 20:48 ` Juri Linkov @ 2009-08-31 15:12 ` Chong Yidong 2009-08-31 16:14 ` Juri Linkov 2009-08-31 16:15 ` Andreas Schwab 0 siblings, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Chong Yidong @ 2009-08-31 15:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Juri Linkov; +Cc: kawabata.taichi, emacs-devel Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org> writes: > BTW, I think we should convert HELLO to UTF-8. Do you see any symbol > in HELLO not supported by UTF-8? Isn't it currently UTF-8? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-31 15:12 ` Chong Yidong @ 2009-08-31 16:14 ` Juri Linkov 2009-08-31 16:15 ` Andreas Schwab 1 sibling, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Juri Linkov @ 2009-08-31 16:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Chong Yidong; +Cc: kawabata.taichi, emacs-devel >> BTW, I think we should convert HELLO to UTF-8. Do you see any symbol >> in HELLO not supported by UTF-8? > > Isn't it currently UTF-8? I see it's currently iso-2022-7bit-unix. And `view-hello-file' sets its coding system to iso-2022-7bit explicitly. -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-31 15:12 ` Chong Yidong 2009-08-31 16:14 ` Juri Linkov @ 2009-08-31 16:15 ` Andreas Schwab 2009-08-31 16:32 ` David Kastrup 2009-09-08 0:12 ` kawabata.taichi 1 sibling, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Andreas Schwab @ 2009-08-31 16:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Chong Yidong; +Cc: Juri Linkov, kawabata.taichi, emacs-devel Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> writes: > Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org> writes: > >> BTW, I think we should convert HELLO to UTF-8. Do you see any symbol >> in HELLO not supported by UTF-8? > > Isn't it currently UTF-8? It's iso-2022-7bit, and converting it to utf-8 would lose the cjk variants. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-31 16:15 ` Andreas Schwab @ 2009-08-31 16:32 ` David Kastrup 2009-08-31 17:02 ` Andreas Schwab 2009-08-31 17:55 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-09-08 0:12 ` kawabata.taichi 1 sibling, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: David Kastrup @ 2009-08-31 16:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes: > Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> writes: > >> Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org> writes: >> >>> BTW, I think we should convert HELLO to UTF-8. Do you see any symbol >>> in HELLO not supported by UTF-8? >> >> Isn't it currently UTF-8? > > It's iso-2022-7bit, and converting it to utf-8 would lose the cjk > variants. Since Emacs-23 has utf-8 as its internal encoding, I have my problems to see how they are not lost anyway. -- David Kastrup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-31 16:32 ` David Kastrup @ 2009-08-31 17:02 ` Andreas Schwab 2009-09-01 11:41 ` Kenichi Handa 2009-08-31 17:55 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: Andreas Schwab @ 2009-08-31 17:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Kastrup; +Cc: emacs-devel David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes: > Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes: > >> Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> writes: >> >>> Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org> writes: >>> >>>> BTW, I think we should convert HELLO to UTF-8. Do you see any symbol >>>> in HELLO not supported by UTF-8? >>> >>> Isn't it currently UTF-8? >> >> It's iso-2022-7bit, and converting it to utf-8 would lose the cjk >> variants. > > Since Emacs-23 has utf-8 as its internal encoding, I have my problems to > see how they are not lost anyway. See the charset properties. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-31 17:02 ` Andreas Schwab @ 2009-09-01 11:41 ` Kenichi Handa 2009-09-01 21:27 ` Juri Linkov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: Kenichi Handa @ 2009-09-01 11:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andreas Schwab; +Cc: dak, emacs-devel In article <m38wgz7w77.fsf@hase.home>, Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes: > David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes: > > Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes: > > >>> Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> writes: >>> >>>> Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org> writes: >>>> >>>>> BTW, I think we should convert HELLO to UTF-8. Do you see any symbol >>>>> in HELLO not supported by UTF-8? >>>> >>>> Isn't it currently UTF-8? >>> >>> It's iso-2022-7bit, and converting it to utf-8 would lose the cjk >>> variants. > > > > Since Emacs-23 has utf-8 as its internal encoding, I have my problems to > > see how they are not lost anyway. > See the charset properties. As iso-2022-7bit has designation sequences for each character set, Emacs can use that information to add proper `charset' property, and that property infulence the font selection. --- Kenichi Handa handa@m17n.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-01 11:41 ` Kenichi Handa @ 2009-09-01 21:27 ` Juri Linkov 2009-09-03 13:07 ` Kenichi Handa 0 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: Juri Linkov @ 2009-09-01 21:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kenichi Handa; +Cc: dak, Andreas Schwab, emacs-devel >>>>>> BTW, I think we should convert HELLO to UTF-8. Do you see any symbol >>>>>> in HELLO not supported by UTF-8? >>>>> >>>>> Isn't it currently UTF-8? >>>> >>>> It's iso-2022-7bit, and converting it to utf-8 would lose the cjk >>>> variants. >> > >> > Since Emacs-23 has utf-8 as its internal encoding, I have my >> > problems to see how they are not lost anyway. > >> See the charset properties. > > As iso-2022-7bit has designation sequences for each > character set, Emacs can use that information to add proper > `charset' property, and that property infulence the font > selection. The purpose of the HELLO file is to demonstrate Emacs multilingual capabilities. It currently does this using iso-2022-7bit. Does this mean that UTF-8 is not the best coding system for multilingual texts in Emacs, because UTF-8 has some limitations (doesn't provide the proper font selection, loses cjk variants), so iso-2022-7bit is the preferable coding system for multilingual texts in Emacs? Is it possible to improve the UTF-8 support in Emacs since most files use it nowadays? -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-01 21:27 ` Juri Linkov @ 2009-09-03 13:07 ` Kenichi Handa 2009-09-06 18:20 ` 牛粥 0 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: Kenichi Handa @ 2009-09-03 13:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Juri Linkov; +Cc: dak, schwab, emacs-devel In article <873a762ylx.fsf@mail.jurta.org>, Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org> writes: > > As iso-2022-7bit has designation sequences for each > > character set, Emacs can use that information to add proper > > `charset' property, and that property infulence the font > > selection. > The purpose of the HELLO file is to demonstrate Emacs multilingual > capabilities. It currently does this using iso-2022-7bit. Does this > mean that UTF-8 is not the best coding system for multilingual texts > in Emacs, because UTF-8 has some limitations (doesn't provide the > proper font selection, loses cjk variants), so iso-2022-7bit is the > preferable coding system for multilingual texts in Emacs? At least for CJK characters included in legacy character sets (e.g. JISX0208, GB2312, etc), iso-2022-7bit is still better than utf-8 if we concern font selection. > Is it possible > to improve the UTF-8 support in Emacs since most files use it nowadays? For that, we must use language tags, but they are strongly discouraged by Unicode. Unicode doesn't concern font selection problem. It says that it is a task of higher level information, for instance, that is provided by XML's language tag. --- Kenichi Handa handa@m17n.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-03 13:07 ` Kenichi Handa @ 2009-09-06 18:20 ` 牛粥 2009-09-06 20:01 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-09-07 1:01 ` Kenichi Handa 0 siblings, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: 牛粥 @ 2009-09-06 18:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kenichi Handa; +Cc: emacs-devel At Thu, 03 Sep 2009 22:07:50 +0900, Kenichi Handa wrote: > > In article <873a762ylx.fsf@mail.jurta.org>, Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org> writes: > > > > As iso-2022-7bit has designation sequences for each > > > character set, Emacs can use that information to add proper > > > `charset' property, and that property infulence the font > > > selection. > > > The purpose of the HELLO file is to demonstrate Emacs multilingual > > capabilities. It currently does this using iso-2022-7bit. Does this > > mean that UTF-8 is not the best coding system for multilingual texts > > in Emacs, because UTF-8 has some limitations (doesn't provide the > > proper font selection, loses cjk variants), so iso-2022-7bit is the > > preferable coding system for multilingual texts in Emacs? > > At least for CJK characters included in legacy character > sets (e.g. JISX0208, GB2312, etc), iso-2022-7bit is still > better than utf-8 if we concern font selection. > > > Is it possible > > to improve the UTF-8 support in Emacs since most files use it nowadays? > > For that, we must use language tags, but they are strongly > discouraged by Unicode. Unicode doesn't concern font > selection problem. It says that it is a task of higher > level information, for instance, that is provided by XML's > language tag. According to Handa-san's mentions, if we do not use iso-2022-7bit, we cannot do input/output of non-ascii characters. Is that right? Still i'm wondering what it means ... Sincerely, -- Byung-Hee HWANG ∑ WWW: http://izb.knu.ac.kr/~bh/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-06 18:20 ` 牛粥 @ 2009-09-06 20:01 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-09-06 21:08 ` 牛粥 2009-09-07 1:02 ` Kenichi Handa 2009-09-07 1:01 ` Kenichi Handa 1 sibling, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-09-06 20:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 牛粥; +Cc: emacs-devel, handa > Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 03:20:16 +0900 > From: bh@izb.knu.ac.kr (=?UTF-8?B?54mb57Kl?=) > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > According to Handa-san's mentions, > if we do not use iso-2022-7bit, we cannot do input/output of non-ascii > characters. Is that right? No, it isn't right. What Handa-san says is that for _some_ scripts, selection of font can be more according to user expectations if the information about the language is preserved. iso-2022 gives us an opportunity to identify the language, while utf-8 does not. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-06 20:01 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-09-06 21:08 ` 牛粥 2009-09-07 1:02 ` Kenichi Handa 1 sibling, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: 牛粥 @ 2009-09-06 21:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: emacs-devel At Sun, 06 Sep 2009 23:01:25 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 03:20:16 +0900 > > From: bh@izb.knu.ac.kr (=?UTF-8?B?54mb57Kl?=) > > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > > According to Handa-san's mentions, > > if we do not use iso-2022-7bit, we cannot do input/output of non-ascii > > characters. Is that right? > > No, it isn't right. What Handa-san says is that for _some_ scripts, > selection of font can be more according to user expectations if the > information about the language is preserved. iso-2022 gives us an > opportunity to identify the language, while utf-8 does not. That makes sense to me, thanks for explanation! Sincerely, -- Byung-Hee HWANG ∑ WWW: http://izb.knu.ac.kr/~bh/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-06 20:01 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-09-06 21:08 ` 牛粥 @ 2009-09-07 1:02 ` Kenichi Handa 1 sibling, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Kenichi Handa @ 2009-09-07 1:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: bh, emacs-devel In article <831vmj4zca.fsf@gnu.org>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > No, it isn't right. What Handa-san says is that for _some_ scripts, > selection of font can be more according to user expectations if the > information about the language is preserved. iso-2022 gives us an > opportunity to identify the language, while utf-8 does not. Yes. Thank you for explaining it in clear words. --- Kenichi Handa handa@m17n.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-06 18:20 ` 牛粥 2009-09-06 20:01 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-09-07 1:01 ` Kenichi Handa 1 sibling, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Kenichi Handa @ 2009-09-07 1:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: =?UTF-8?B?54mb57Kl?=; +Cc: emacs-devel In article <86ab18orz3.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr>, bh@izb.knu.ac.kr (=?UTF-8?B?54mb57Kl?=) writes: > According to Handa-san's mentions, > if we do not use iso-2022-7bit, we cannot do input/output of non-ascii > characters. Is that right? No. I didn't say such a thing. > Still i'm wondering what it means ... I don't understand from which statement of mine you get such a conclusion. --- Kenichi Handa handa@m17n.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-31 16:32 ` David Kastrup 2009-08-31 17:02 ` Andreas Schwab @ 2009-08-31 17:55 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-08-31 22:03 ` Andreas Schwab 1 sibling, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-08-31 17:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Kastrup; +Cc: emacs-devel > From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> > Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:32:25 +0200 > > > It's iso-2022-7bit, and converting it to utf-8 would lose the cjk > > variants. > > Since Emacs-23 has utf-8 as its internal encoding, I have my problems to > see how they are not lost anyway. That's because the internal encoding extends Unicode, see the ELisp manual for the details. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-31 17:55 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-08-31 22:03 ` Andreas Schwab 0 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Andreas Schwab @ 2009-08-31 22:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: David Kastrup, emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> >> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:32:25 +0200 >> >> > It's iso-2022-7bit, and converting it to utf-8 would lose the cjk >> > variants. >> >> Since Emacs-23 has utf-8 as its internal encoding, I have my problems to >> see how they are not lost anyway. > > That's because the internal encoding extends Unicode, see the ELisp > manual for the details. Though these extensions are not used for CJK variants. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-08-31 16:15 ` Andreas Schwab 2009-08-31 16:32 ` David Kastrup @ 2009-09-08 0:12 ` kawabata.taichi 2009-09-08 2:53 ` Stephen J. Turnbull ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: kawabata.taichi @ 2009-09-08 0:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andreas Schwab; +Cc: Juri Linkov, Chong Yidong, emacs-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1505 bytes --] Sorry I was late only reply. >> In <m3fxb86jtb.fsf@hase.home>, Andreas Schwab wrote: > >> BTW, I think we should convert HELLO to UTF-8. Do you see any symbol > >> in HELLO not supported by UTF-8? > > > > Isn't it currently UTF-8? > It's iso-2022-7bit, and converting it to utf-8 would lose the cjk > variants. `iso-2022-7bit' has been adopted for HELLO file, as it could contain CJK variants differently, but if we are to go into depth of various scripts and symbols that ISO-2022 does not support, we could only use UTF. ISO/IEC 10646 Annex T provides the way to describe the language in plain text by using Language Tags, such as follows: 开发、開發、開発 Language Tags are not recommended by the Unicode (as long as there is other ways to describe language, such as XML lang attributes), but it is the only way to describe language in plain text. Or switch we switch HELLO file from plain text to some XML format? # Emacs still doesn't handle Language Tags, but I think it wouldn't be # difficult in some future time... I'll attach updated HELLO examples as follows, that incorporates all the languages I could find "HELLO" word, plus Language Tag usage examples (someday Emacs may support it?) and fixed the logical order of Arabic language. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- kawabata.taichi@gmail.com KAWABATA, Taichi [-- Attachment #2: HELLO.txt --] [-- Type: text/plain, Size: 17687 bytes --] This is a list of ways to say hello in various languages. (For symbols and some scripts, only sample texts or characters are shown.) Languages and scripts are classified by writing directions. 1. Scripts written from left to right. LANGUAGE (NATIVE NAME) HELLO ---------------------- ----- xAbenaki (Alnôba) Kwai Kwai! Abkhaz (аҧсуа бызшәа) мыш бзи! Afar (`Afa'r af) Mahisse Afrikaans Hallo, Goeie dag Ainu (アイヌ イタㇰ) イランカラㇷ゚テ Alabama (Albaamo innaaɬiilka) Chíkmàa Albanian (shqip / gjuha shqipe) C'kemi, Tungjatjeta Alsatian Hallo, Güete Tag Amharic (አማርኛ) ሠላም Aragonese Ola Arapaho (Hinonoéitiit) Héébee, Tous Armenian (Հայերէն) բարև Aromanian / Vlach (Armãneashti) bunã dzua Arrernte Werte Assamese (অসমীয়া) নমস্কার Asturian Hola, Bonos díes Avar (магIарул мацI) ВорчIами! / ЙорчIами! Balkar (малкъар/балкъар) Кюнюгюз ашхы болсун! Basque (euskara) Kaixo Belarusian (Беларуская мова) Вітаю, Дзень добры Bengali (বাংলা) নমস্কার Bhojpuri (भोजपुरी) प्रणाम / परणाम Bosnian (Bosanski) Dobar dan Zdravo / Merhaba Braille ⠓⠑⠇⠇⠕ Breton Salud, Mat an traoù ganeoc'h Bulgarian (български) Здравейте Burmese (မ္ရန္မာ) မင္ဂလာပာ C printf ("Hello, world!\n"); Caddo (Hasí:nay) Káhaʔahat! Cantonese (粵語 / 廣東話) 早晨 / 你好 / 喂 Catalan (català) Hola, Bon dia Catawba tɑnakɛ! Cayuga (Goyogo̱hó:nǫ’) Sgę́nǫ’ Chamorro Håfa ådai / Buenas Chechen (Нохчийн мотт) Салам Cherokee (ᏣᎳᎩ ᎧᏬᏂᎯᏍᏗ) ᎣᏏᏲ Cheyenne (Etsėhesenestse) Haáhe! Chichewa (Chicheŵa) Moni bambo! Chickasaw (Chikasha) Chokma! Chinese ( 普通话 / 汉语 / 漢語) 你好, 您好 Chinese, Hakka (客话 / 𠊎话) 爾好 Chinese, Shanghainese (上海话) 儂好 Chiricahua Hadínyaa? Choctaw (Chahta Anumpa) Halito Cimbrian Guuten takh Congo mambo Comanche (Nu̶mu̶ tekwapu̶̲) Marú̶awe! Cornish (Kernewek / Kernowek) Dydh da, Hou, You, Ha, Hou sos Corsican (corsu) Bonghjornu Cree (ᓀᐦᐃᔭᐍᐏᐣ / ᓀᐦᐃᔭᐤ) ᐊᑕᒥᐢᑳᑐᐃᐧᐣ Croatian (Hrvatski) Bok / Čao / Dobar Dan Czech (čeština) Dobrý den Dalecarian Hej / Høj / Góðdag Danish (dansk) Hej / Goddag / Halløj Deseret (𐐼𐐯𐑅𐐨𐑉𐐯𐐻 𐐰𐑊𐑁𐐩𐐺𐐯𐐻) 𐐸𐑩𐑊𐐬 Dinka (Thuɔŋjäŋ) Ci yi bak Dutch (Nederlands) Hallo / Dag Dzongkha (རྫོང་ཁ) སྐུ་གཟུགས་བཟང་པོ Emacs emacs --no-splash -f view-hello-file English /ˈɪŋɡlɪʃ/ Hello Erzya (эрзянь кель) Шумбрат! Esperanto Saluton Estonian (eesti keel) Tere päevast / Tere õhtust Faroese (Føroyska) Hallo / Hey Fijian (Vakaviti) Bula / Drau bula / Dou bula / Nibula Finnish (suomi) Hei / Hyvää päivää French (français) Bonjour / Salut Frisian, North (Noordfreesk) Moin / Guundach Frisian, West (Frysk) A goeie/ Hoi / Goeie / Goedei Friulan (furlan / marilenghe) Bundì / Mandi Gaelic, Scottish (Gàidhlig) Halò, Ciamar a tha thu / sibh? Galician (Galego) Ola Georgian (ქართველი) გამარჯობა German (Deutsch) Guten Tag / Grüß Gott German, Low (Plattdüütsch) Moin / Goden Dag German, Swiss (Schwyzerdütsch) hallo Greek (ελληνικά) Γειά σας Greek, Polytonic Ἐμπρός! Greenlandic (kalaallisut) Inuugujoq, kutaa / Haluu Gujarati (ગુજરાતી) નમસ્તે Haitian Creole (Kreyòl ayisyen) Bonjou Hawaiian (ʻōlelo Hawaiʻi) Aloha Herero (Otjiherero) Tjike Himba Mono Hindi (हिंदी) नमस्ते । Hungarian (magyar) Szia! / Szép jó napot! Icelandic (Íslenska) Halló / Góðan dag Ido Saluto Igbo nde-ewo Indonesian (Bahasa Indonesia) Selamat siang Interlingua Salute Inuktitut (ᐃᓄᒃᑎᑐᑦ) ᐊᐃ / ᐊᐃᓐᖓᐃ Irish (Gaeilge) Dia duit Italian (italiano) Ciao / Buon giorno Iñupiaq (Inupiatun) Halauġikpiñ Japanese (日本語) 今日は。 / ｺﾝﾆﾁﾊ Javanese (Jawa) System.out.println("Sugeng siang!"); Jersey Norman (Jèrriais) Salut / Bouônjour Jutish Godaw Kannada (ಕನ್ನಡ) ನಮಸ್ಕಾರ Kanza (Kaáⁿze) ho / hawé Karelian Terveh! Kashubian (kaszëbsczi jãzëk) Witôjze Kazakh (Қазақ тілі) Сәлем! / Сәлеметсіз бе? Khanty Вўҫя вуӆа! Khmer (ភាសាខ្មែរ) ជំរាបសួរ / សួស្ដី Kickapoo Aho Kiowa Hā́chò Klingon nuqneH? Koasati (Kowassá:tit) Cikáʔnó! Komi (коми кыв) чолöм / Видза олан! Korean (한글 / 韓國語) 안녕하세요 / 안녕하십니까 / 안녕 Kurdish (к’öрди) Sillaw / Ew kata bash / Em kata bash Kwanyama (kuanyama) wa uhala po / meme LOLcat ;-> Ohai! Lao (ພາສາລາວ) ສະບາຍດີ / ຂໍໃຫ້ໂຊກດີ Latin (Lingua Latina) Heus / Ave / Salve / Salvete Latvian (latviešu valoda) Sveiki Lenape (Lënapei) Hè Limburgish (Lèmburgs) Hallo Lingala (lingála) mbote Lithuanian (lietuvių kalba) Labas / Sveikas / Sveiki Livonian (Līvõ kēļ) Tēriņtš! Lojban coi Luxembourgish (Lëtzebuergesch) Moïen / Salut Macedonian (македонски) Здраво Malay (Bahasa melayu) Selamat pagi / Selamat petang Malayalam (മലയാളം) നമസ്കാരം Maltese (il-Malti) Bonġu / Saħħa / merħba Mansi (Маньси) Пася о̄лэн! Manx (Gaelg / Gailck) Dy bannee diu, Ta shiu/oo cheet! Maori (te Reo Māori) Kia ora / Kia ora rā kōrua Marathi (मराठी) नमस्कार । Mari, Hill Шӓлӓ! Mari, Meadow (марий йылме) Салам! Mathematics ∀ p ∈ world • hello p □ Mohawk (Kanien'kéha) kwe kwe Moksha (мокшень кяль) Шумбра́т! / Шумбра́тада! Mongolian (монгол) Сайн уу? Nahuatl (nāhuatl) niltze, hao Nama (Namagowab) !gai / oas Navajo (Diné Bizaad) Y´'át'ééh Neapolitan cia, cha Nederlands, Vlaams Hallo / Dag Nenets, Tundra Торова! Nepal Bhasa (नेपाल भाषा) ज्वजलपा Nepali (नेपाली) नमस्ते Niuean (ko e vagahau Niuē) faka lofa lahi atu Norwegian (norsk) Hei / God dag Occitan Bonjorn! Old English Wes hāl / Wesaþ hāl Oriya (ଓଡ଼ିଆ) ଶୁଣିବେ Pig Latin eyhay Pitjantjatjara Wai, Wai palya Plautdietsch Goondach Polish (język polski) Dzień dobry! / Cześć! Portuguese (português) Oi! E aí? Tudo bem? Tudo certo? Opa! Punjabi (ਪੰਜਾਬੀ) ਸਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ. Rajasthani (राजस्थानी) राम् राम्. Romanian (limba română) Salut Russian (русский) Здра́вствуйте! Sami, Inari (säämegiella) Tiervâ! Sami, Northern (sámi / sámegiella) Bures! Sami, Southern (saemien giele) Tiõrv! Samoan (Gagana Samoa) Talofa Sardinian (Limba Sarda) Bona die Senegal salamaleikum Serbian (српски) Здраво Shavian (𐑖𐑭𐑝𐑾𐑯) 𐑣𐑩𐑤𐑴 Shona (chiShona) Mhoro / Mhoroi Sicilian (sicilianu) Ciau Sinhala (සිංහල) ආයුබෝවන් Slovak (slovenčina) Ahoj / Ahojte / Nazdar / Servus Slovenian (slovenščina) Pozdravljeni! Sotho, Southern (seSotho) Lumela / Dumela / Dumelang Spanish (español) ¡Hola! Stellingwarfs Hoj Sulka marot Swahili (Kiswahili) Habari / Hujambo Swedish (på svenska) Hej / Goddag / Hallå Tagalog (ᜊᜌ᜔ᜊᜌᜒᜈ᜔) ᜋᜊᜓᜑᜌ᜔ Tamil (தமிழ்) வணக்கம் Telugu (తెలుగు) నమస్కారం Tetum (tetun) bondia Thai (ภาษาไทย) สวัสดีครับ / สวัสดีค่ะ Tibetan (བོད་སྐད་) བཀྲ་ཤིས་བདེ་ལེགས༎ Tigrigna (ትግርኛ) ሰላማት Tok Pisin (Tok Pisin) Gude Tongan (Faka-Tonga) Malo e lelei / Malo e tau lava Tsez (цез мец) АсаламугIалейкум! Tshiluba moyo Tsonga (xiTsonga) minjhani Turkish (Türkçe) Merhaba / Selam / İyi günler Alo / Efendim Udmurt (удмурт кыл) Умой! Ukrainian (українська) Вітаю Uzbek (o'zbek tili) Assalomu Alaykum! Venda (tshiVenḓa) I nhlikanhi Veps Tervhen! Vietnamese (tiếng Việt) Chào bạn Volapük Glidis Walloon (walon) Bondjoû Warlpiri Ngurrju mayinpa Welsh (Cymraeg / Y Gymraeg) Helô / Hylô / Shwmae Xhosa (isiXhosa) Molo / Molweni Yappese Mogethin Yoruba (Yorùbá) Ẹ n lẹ Zulu (isiZulu) Sawubona / Sanibonani SCRIPT NAME SAMPLES ---------------------- ----- Balinese (ᬩᬲ ᬩᬮᬶ) ᬓᬔᬕᬖᬗᬘᬙᬚᬛᬜᬝᬞᬟ Blackfoot (ᑯᖾᖹ / ᓱᖽᐧᖿ) ᖳᖰᖱᖲ Buginese (ᨅᨔ ᨕᨘᨁᨗ) ᨕᨗᨕᨊᨕᨙ ᨔᨛᨄᨒᨚ Buhid (ᝊᝓᝑᝒᝇ) ᝀᝁᝂᝃᝄᝅ Carian 𐊠𐊥𐊣𐊹𐊮𐊸 𐊲𐊥𐊰𐊴𐊣𐊺𐊸 𐊽𐊹𐊾𐊩𐊰𐊹𐊸 Carrier (ᑐᑊᘁᗕᑋᗸ) ᗺᗹᗵᗷᗶ Cham ꨁꨗꨩꨈꨮ CJK Radicals ⼀⼁⼂⼃⼄⼅⼆⼇⼈⼉ / ⺀⺁⺂⺃⺄⺅⺆⺇⺈⺉ CJK Unified Ideograph Extension-A 㐀㐁㐂㐃㐄㐅㐆㐇㐈㐉㐊㐋㐌㐍㐎㐏 CJK Unified Ideograph Extension-B 𠀀𠀁𠀂𠀃𠀄𠀅𠀆𠀇𠀈𠀉𠀊𠀋𠀌𠀍𠀎𠀏 CJK Unified Ideograph Extension-C 𪜀𪜁𪜂𪜃𪜄𪜅𪜆𪜇𪜈𪜉𪜊𪜋𪜌𪜍𪜎𪜏 Coptic ⲘⲒⲞ.Ⲕ Cuneiform 𒀀𒀁𒀂𒀃𒀄𒀅𒀆𒀇𒀈𒀉𒀊𒀋𒀌𒀍𒀎𒀏 Cyrillic Supplement ԀԁԂԃԄԅԆԇԈԉԊԋԌԍԎԏ Cyrillic Extended-A ⷠⷡⷢⷣⷤⷥⷦⷧⷨⷩⷪⷫⷬⷭⷮⷯ Cyrillic Extended-B ꙀꙁꙂꙃꙄꙅꙆꙇꙈꙉꙊꙋꙌꙍꙎꙏ Ethiopic Extended ⶀⶁⶂⶃⶄⶅⶆⶇⶈⶉⶊⶋⶌⶍⶎⶏ Ethiopic Supplement ᎀᎁᎂᎃᎄᎅᎆᎇᎈᎉᎊᎋᎌᎍᎎᎏ Georgian Supplement ⴀⴁⴂⴃⴄⴅⴆⴇⴈⴉⴊⴋⴌⴍⴎⴏ Glagolitic ⰙⰂⰍⰌⰇⰟⰘ Gothic 𐌰𐍄𐍄𐌰 𐌿𐌽𐍃𐌰𐍂 𐌸𐌿 𐌹𐌽 Hanunoo (ᜱᜨᜳᜨᜳᜢ) ᜣᜫᜨᜳᜰᜲ Kayah Li ꤁꤂꤃꤄꤅ Latin Extended-C ⱠⱡⱢⱣⱤⱥⱦⱧⱨⱩⱪⱫⱬⱭⱮⱯ Latin Extended-D ꜠꜡ꜢꜣꜤꜥꜦꜧꜨꜩꜪꜫꜬꜭꜮꜯ Lepcha ᰣᰕᰧᰅ Limbu ᤀᤁᤂᤃᤄᤅᤆᤇᤈ Lycian 𐊀𐊁𐊂𐊃𐊄𐊅𐊆𐊇 Lydian 𐤠𐤡𐤢𐤣𐤤𐤥𐤦𐤧 New Tai Lue ᦀᦁᦂᦃᦄᦅᦆᦇ Ogham ᚛ᚁᚂᚃᚄᚅᚆᚇᚈᚉᚊᚋᚌᚍᚎᚏᚐᚑᚒᚒᚔ᚜ Santali (Ol Chiki) ᱟᱲ.ᱟ. Old Persian 𐎠𐎡𐎢𐎣𐎤𐎥𐎦𐎧𐎨𐎩𐎪𐎫𐎬𐎭𐎮𐎯 Osmanya 𐒀𐒁𐒂𐒃𐒄𐒅𐒆𐒇𐒈𐒉𐒊𐒋𐒌𐒍𐒎𐒏 Phaistos Disc 𐇑𐇛𐇜𐇐𐇡 Phonetic Extensions ᴀᴁᴂᴃᴄᴅᴆᴇᴈᴉᴊᴋᴌᴍᴎᴏ Phonetic Extension Supplement ᶀᶁᶂᶃᶄᶅᶆᶇᶈᶉᶊᶋᶌᶍᶎᶏ Rejang ꤰꤱꤲꤴꤵ Runic ᛒᛁᛏᚱᛅᛁᛋ᛬ᛚᛅᛁᚠᛅ᛬ᚠᚢᛋᛏᚱᛅ᛬ᚴᚢᚦᛅᚾ᛬ᚦᛅᚾ᛬ᛋᚭᚾ᛬ᛁᛚᛅᚾ᛭ Saurashtra ꢂꢒꢂꢬꢣꢶ Sundanese ᮀᮁᮂᮃᮄᮅᮆᮇᮈᮉᮊᮋᮌᮍᮎᮏ Syloti Nagri ꠀꠇꠣꠌꠤꠐꠥꠔꠦ Tagbanwa (ᝤᝪᝨᝯ) ᝠᝡᝢᝣᝤᝥᝦᝧᝨᝩᝪᝫᝬ Tifinagh (ⵜⵉⴼⵉⵏⴰⵖ) ⴰⴱⴲⴳⴴⴵⴶⴷⴸⴹⴺⴻⴼⴽⴾⴿ Tai Le (ᥖᥭᥰᥖᥬᥳᥑᥨᥒᥰ) ᥐᥑᥒᥓᥔᥕᥖᥗᥘᥙᥚᥛᥜᥝᥞᥟ New Tai Lue ᦀᦁᦂᦃᦄᦅᦆᦇᦈᦉᦊᦋᦌᦍᦎᦏ Ugaritic 𐎀𐎁𐎂𐎃𐎄𐎅𐎆𐎇𐎈𐎉𐎊𐎋𐎌𐎍𐎎𐎏 Vai ꔀꔁꔂꔃꔄꔅꔆꔇꔈꔉꔊꔋꔌꔍꔎꔏ Yi (ꆇꉙ) ꉷꆀꅇꌫꏦ \f 2. Scripts written from Right to Left. LANGUAGE (NATIVE NAME) HELLO ---------------------- ----- Arabic (ةّيبرعلا) السلام عليكم Aramaic, Syriac (ܠܫܢܐ ܤܘܪܝܝܐ) ܐܵܝ! / ܐܳܝ! Dhivehi (ހިވެދި) ކިހިނެތް؟ / ހާލު ކިހިނެތް؟ Hebrew (תירבע) שלום Persian (فارسى) سلام / درود Urdu (اردو) السلام علیکم Yiddish (ײִדיש / מאַמע לשון) אַ גוטן טאָג SCRIPT NAME SAMPLES ---------------------- ----- Arabic Supplement ݐݑݒݓݔݕݖݗݘݙݚݛݜݝݞݟ Cypriot Syllabary 𐠀𐠁𐠂𐠃𐠄𐠅𐠈𐠊𐠋𐠌𐠍𐠎𐠏 Kharoshthi 𐨠𐨡𐨢𐨣𐨤𐨥𐨦𐨧𐨨𐨩𐨪𐨫𐨬𐨭𐨮𐨯 Linear B 𐀀𐀁𐀂𐀃𐀄𐀅𐀆𐀇 / 𐂀𐂁𐂂𐂃𐂄𐂅𐂆𐂇 N'Ko (ߒߞߏ) ߀߁߂߃߄߅߆߇߈߉ߊߋߌߍߎߏ Old Italic 𐌀𐌁𐌂𐌃𐌄𐌅𐌆𐌇𐌈𐌉𐌊𐌋𐌌𐌍𐌎𐌏 Phoenician 𐤀𐤁𐤂𐤃𐤄𐤅𐤆𐤇𐤈𐤉𐤊𐤋𐤌𐤍𐤎𐤏 \f 3. Scripts written from Top to Bottom LANGUAGE (NATIVE NAME) HELLO ---------------------- ----- Mongolian (ᠮᠣᠨᠭᠣᠯ ᠪᠢᠴᠢᠭ) ᠰᠠᠢ᠋ᠨ ᠪᠠᠢ᠋ᠨ ᠤᠦ Japanese (日本語) もし〳〵 (Vertical Repetition Marks) SCRIPT NAME SAMPLES ---------------------- ----- Manchurian (ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ) ᡶᡠᡯᡳ ᡥᡝᠨᡩᡠᠮᡝ᠈ ᡨᠠᠴᡳᠮᠪᡳᠮᡝ ᡝᡵᡳᠨᡩᡝᡵᡳ ᡠᡵᡳᠪᡠᠴᡳ᠈ ᡳᠨᡠ ᡠᡵᡤᡠᠨ ᠸᠠᡴᠠ᠉ Kanbun (漢文) 使㆟籍誠不㆚以㆘蓄㆓妻子㆒憂㆗飢寒㆖乱㆙㆑心、 有㆑銭以済㆞医薬㆝。 Phags-pa ꡏꡟ ꡋꡞ ꡏꡟ ꡋꡞ ᠂ ꡏ ꡜꡖ ꡏꡟ ꡋꡞ ᠂ ꡓꡞ ꡏꡟ ᠁ \f 4. Symbols SYMBOL NAMES EXAMPLES ---------------------- ----- Aegean Numbers 𐄀𐄁𐄂𐄇 𐄈𐄉𐄊𐄋𐄌𐄍𐄎𐄏 Ancient Greek Numbers 𐅀𐅁𐅂𐅃𐅄𐅅𐅆𐅇𐅈𐅉𐅊𐅋𐅌𐅍𐅎𐅏 Ancient Symbols 𐆐𐆑𐆒𐆓𐆔𐆕𐆖𐆗𐆘𐆙𐆚𐆛 Ancient Greek Musical Notation 𝈀𝈁𝈂𝈃𝈄𝈅𝈆𝈈𝈉𝈊𝈋𝈌𝈍𝈎𝈏 Arrows ←↑↠↡↰↱⇀⇁⟰⟱⟲⟳⤀⤁⤐⤑⤠⤡⤰⤱⥀⥁ Block Elements ▀▁▂▃▄▅▆▇▐░▒▓▔▕▖▗ Box Drawing ┌┐└┘├┤┬┴ Byzantine Musical Symbols 𝀰𝀱𝀲𝀳𝀴𝀵𝀶𝀷 Combining Diacritical Marks à á â ã ā a̅ ă ȧ ä ả å a̋ ǎ a̍ a̎ ȁ Combining Diacritical Marks For Symbols a⃐ a⃑ a⃒ a⃓ a⃔ a⃕ a⃖ a⃗ Combining Diacritical Marks Supplement a᷀ a᷁ a᷂ a᷃ a᷄ a᷅ a᷆ a᷇ a᷈ a᷉ a᷊ a᷋ a᷌ a᷍ a᷎ a᷏ Control Pictures ␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏ Counting Rod Numerals 𝍠𝍡𝍢𝍣𝍤𝍥𝍦𝍧𝍨𝍩𝍪𝍫𝍬𝍭𝍮𝍯 Currency Symbols $¢£¤¥₠₡₢₣₤₥₦₧₨₩₪₫₭₮₯ Dingbats ✁✆✇✈✉✌✍✐✒✓✟✠ Domino Tiles 🀰🀲🁂🁒🁛🁢🁤🁴🂄🂍 Enclosed Alphanumerics ①②③④⑴⑵⑶⑷⒈⒉⒊⒋⒜⒝⒞⒟ⒶⒷⒸⒹⓐⓑⓒⓓ⓵⓶⓷⓸ Geometric Shapes ■□▢▣▤▥▦▧▰▱▲△▴▵▶▷◀◁◂◃◄◅◆◇◐◑◒◓◔◕◖◗ Ideographic Description Characters 漢=⿰氵𦰩, 字=⿱宀子 Khmer Symbols ᧠᧡᧢᧣᧤᧥᧦᧧᧨᧩᧪᧫᧬᧭᧮᧯ Letterlike Symbols ℀℁ℂ℃℄℅℆ℇ℈℉ℊℋℌℍℎℏ Misellaneous Symbols ☄★☆☐☑☒☓♀♁♂♃♨♰♲♳♴⚀⚁⚐⚒⚓⚠⚡⚢ Number Forms ⅓⅔⅕⅖ⅠⅡⅢⅣⅰⅱⅲⅳↀↁↂↃↄ Mahjong Tiles 🀀🀁🀂🀃🀆🀅🀄🀇🀏🀐🀘🀙🀡🀢🀦🀪🀫 Mathematical Operators ∀∂∃∄∈∊∌∑∓√⨀⨁⨂⨃⨐⨠⨡⨢⨰⨱⨲⩀⩁⩂ Mathematical Symbols ⟀⟁⟂⟃⟐⟑⟒⟓⟠⟡⟢⟣⦀⦁⦂⦃⦄ Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols 𝐀𝐁𝐂𝐃𝐄𝐅𝐆𝐇𝐈𝐉𝐊𝐋𝐌𝐍𝐎𝐏 Modifier Tone Letters ꜀꜁꜂꜃꜄꜅꜆꜇꜈꜉꜊꜋꜌꜍꜎꜏ Musical Symbols 𝆰𝆱𝆲𝆳𝆴𝆵𝆶𝆷𝆸𝆹𝆺𝆹𝅥𝆺𝅥𝆹𝅥𝅮𝆺𝅥𝅮𝆹𝅥𝅯 Optical Character Recognition ⑀⑁⑂⑃⑄⑅⑆⑇⑈⑉⑊ Planet Symbols ☿♀♁♂♃♄♅♆♇ / ⚳⚴⚵⚶⚷ Recycling Symbols ♲♳♴♵♶♷♸♹♺♻♼♽ Superscripts ⁰¹²³²⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹⁺⁻⁼⁽⁾ⁿʰʱʲʳʴʵʶʷʸˠˡˢˣˤჼ Subscripts ₀₁₂₃₄₅₆₇₈₉₊₋₌₍₎ₐₑᵢₒᵤⱼᵥₓᵣₔₓ Supplemental Punctuation ⸀⸁⸂⸃⸄⸅⸆⸇⸈⸉⸊⸋⸌⸍⸎ Technical Symbols ⌀⌁⌂⌃⌐⌑⌒⌠⌡⌰⌱⌲⌳⍀⍁⍂⍐⍑⍒ Tai Xuan Jing Symbols 𝌰𝌱𝌲𝌳𝌴𝌵𝌶𝌷𝌸𝌹𝌺𝌻𝌼𝌽𝌾𝌿 Tramp Suites ♠♡♢♣♤♥♦♧ Yijing Hexagram Symbols ☰☱☲☳☴☵☶☷ Weather Symbols ☀☁☂☃☔ \f 5. Special Characters NAME SAMPLES ---------------------- ----- LANGUAGE TAGS 开发、開發、開発 VARIATION SELECTORS 邊 vs. 邊󠄀, 邊󠄁, 邊󠄂, 邊󠄃, 邊󠄄, 邊󠄅, 邊󠄆, 邊󠄇 \f Copyright (C) 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This file is part of GNU Emacs. GNU Emacs is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation, either version 3 of the License, or (at your option) any later version. GNU Emacs is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details. You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with GNU Emacs. If not, see <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/>. ;;; Local Variables: ;;; tab-width: 40 ;;; End: ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-08 0:12 ` kawabata.taichi @ 2009-09-08 2:53 ` Stephen J. Turnbull 2009-09-12 13:52 ` Per Starbäck 2009-09-08 3:11 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-09-09 0:47 ` Juri Linkov 2 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: Stephen J. Turnbull @ 2009-09-08 2:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: kawabata.taichi; +Cc: Juri Linkov, Chong Yidong, Andreas Schwab, emacs-devel kawabata.taichi@gmail.com writes: > `iso-2022-7bit' has been adopted for HELLO file, as it could contain CJK > variants differently, but if we are to go into depth of various scripts > and symbols that ISO-2022 does not support, we could only use UTF. ISO 2022 supports Unicode via the "incompatible encodings" control sequence (I forget the exact name and escape sequence). I don't know if Emacs's iso-2022-* coding systems support it, but it's not hard to add in the unlikely case that you don't have it already. IMO, a better way to do this would be to change the HELLO file to be a Lisp library, and encode it in UTF-8. The table of greetings can simply be wrapped into a string, and add a table of "languages we have preferred fonts for" in Lisp. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-08 2:53 ` Stephen J. Turnbull @ 2009-09-12 13:52 ` Per Starbäck 2009-09-12 17:51 ` 川幡 太一 0 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: Per Starbäck @ 2009-09-12 13:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stephen J. Turnbull Cc: Juri Linkov, kawabata.taichi, Andreas Schwab, Chong Yidong, emacs-devel 2009/9/8 Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen@xemacs.org>: > IMO, a better way to do this would be to change the HELLO file to be a > Lisp library, and encode it in UTF-8. The table of greetings can > simply be wrapped into a string, and add a table of "languages we have > preferred fonts for" in Lisp. Also if there's a hello command that creates a buffer ("*Hello*"?) dynamically, it could put a greeting for the appropriate locale at the top. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-12 13:52 ` Per Starbäck @ 2009-09-12 17:51 ` 川幡 太一 0 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: 川幡 太一 @ 2009-09-12 17:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Per Starbäck Cc: Juri Linkov, Stephen J. Turnbull, Andreas Schwab, Chong Yidong, emacs-devel >> In <912155b0909120652s1649303o8468150c79c53f9b@mail.gmail.com>, >> Per Starbäck wrote: > 2009/9/8 Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen@xemacs.org>: > > IMO, a better way to do this would be to change the HELLO file to be a > > Lisp library, and encode it in UTF-8. The table of greetings can > > simply be wrapped into a string, and add a table of "languages we have > > preferred fonts for" in Lisp. > Also if there's a hello command that creates a buffer ("*Hello*"?) dynamically, > it could put a greeting for the appropriate locale at the top. In some way, it is already realized by `sample-text' attribute of `set-language-info-alist' function. `HELLO' file may be useful for symbols and scripts not yet (or cannot be) supported by Emacs as language, but are already encoded by the UCS/Unicode. Regards, -- ---------------------------------------------------- kawabata.taichi@gmail.com KAWABATA, Taichi ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-08 0:12 ` kawabata.taichi 2009-09-08 2:53 ` Stephen J. Turnbull @ 2009-09-08 3:11 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-09-12 17:45 ` Taichi KAWABATA 2009-09-09 0:47 ` Juri Linkov 2 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-09-08 3:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: kawabata.taichi; +Cc: juri, cyd, schwab, emacs-devel > From: kawabata.taichi@gmail.com > Accept-Language: ja, en;q=0.6, zh;q=0.3, fr;q=0.1, la;q=0.01, sa;q=0.001 > Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 09:12:30 +0900 > Cc: Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org>, Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > > fixed the logical order of Arabic language. Fixed how? (Sorry, don't have time to look.) The name of the language (not the greeting) should be in visual order, because Emacs does not yet support bidirectional display. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-08 3:11 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-09-12 17:45 ` Taichi KAWABATA 2009-09-12 19:39 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: Taichi KAWABATA @ 2009-09-12 17:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: juri, cyd, schwab, emacs-devel >> In <83pra22krm.fsf@gnu.org>, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > fixed the logical order of Arabic language. > Fixed how? (Sorry, don't have time to look.) The name of the > language (not the greeting) should be in visual order, because Emacs > does not yet support bidirectional display. Fixed to follow reading order. They should be rendered correctly when copied to other programs that can handle BIDI correctly, which may include future version of Emacs. >> In <87zl946g9k.fsf@mail.jurta.org>, Juri Linkov wrote: > Or maybe switch to a simpler markup like in emacs/etc/enriched.doc > (and add the language tag support to this format). > 3. You could replace the old Euro currency U+20A0 ₠ with the new one > U+20AC €. That's right. They should be replaced.... > 4. Klingon uses the Private Use Area U+F8D0 - U+F8FF > http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Test_Klingon.html I think non-standardized characters should be avoided. > 5. You've removed charsets jisx0201 and jisx0208 from Japanese > greetings. Is it because they are not needed for font selection, or > just because the transfer charset in your message was utf-8? `Japanese' entry of HELLO contains characters from both JIS X 0208 charsets and JIS X 0201 charsets (halfwidth katakana chars.) Regards, -- ---------------------------------------------------- kawabata.taichi@gmail.com KAWABATA, Taichi ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-12 17:45 ` Taichi KAWABATA @ 2009-09-12 19:39 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-09-15 5:20 ` Kenichi Handa 0 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-09-12 19:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Taichi KAWABATA ; +Cc: emacs-devel > From: kawabata.taichi@gmail.com ( Taichi KAWABATA ) > Cc: schwab@linux-m68k.org, juri@jurta.org, cyd@stupidchicken.com, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 02:45:24 +0900 > > >> In <83pra22krm.fsf@gnu.org>, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > > fixed the logical order of Arabic language. > > > Fixed how? (Sorry, don't have time to look.) The name of the > > language (not the greeting) should be in visual order, because Emacs > > does not yet support bidirectional display. > > Fixed to follow reading order. They should be rendered correctly when > copied to other programs that can handle BIDI correctly, which may > include future version of Emacs. No, we deliberately have the language in visual order to make it readable. Being readable is more important than being copy-paste-able. When Emacs supports bidirectional editing, we will reorder that again. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-12 19:39 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-09-15 5:20 ` Kenichi Handa 2009-09-15 8:08 ` David Kastrup 2009-09-15 17:12 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Kenichi Handa @ 2009-09-15 5:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: kawabata.taichi, emacs-devel In article <83ocpgymug.fsf@gnu.org>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > No, we deliberately have the language in visual order to make it > readable. Being readable is more important than being > copy-paste-able. When Emacs supports bidirectional editing, we will > reorder that again. I now think it's more important to tell whether or not Emacs supports it. When one sees that Arabic is correctly displayed in HELLO, he may misunderstand that Arabic is supported. --- Kenichi Handa handa@m17n.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-15 5:20 ` Kenichi Handa @ 2009-09-15 8:08 ` David Kastrup 2009-09-15 17:20 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-09-15 17:12 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread From: David Kastrup @ 2009-09-15 8:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org> writes: > In article <83ocpgymug.fsf@gnu.org>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > >> No, we deliberately have the language in visual order to make it >> readable. Being readable is more important than being >> copy-paste-able. When Emacs supports bidirectional editing, we will >> reorder that again. > > I now think it's more important to tell whether or not Emacs > supports it. When one sees that Arabic is correctly > displayed in HELLO, he may misunderstand that Arabic is > supported. IIRC, R-L display is the principal remaining heavy-lifting task on the roadmap. I think that rearranging the HELLO file manually into reading order gives the wrong message not just to the users, but also to the developers. -- David Kastrup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-15 8:08 ` David Kastrup @ 2009-09-15 17:20 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-09-15 17:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Kastrup; +Cc: emacs-devel > From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:08:20 +0200 > > I think that rearranging the HELLO file manually into reading order > gives the wrong message not just to the users, but also to the > developers. Well, seeing the language name and the greeting in reverse for the last 10 years didn't prompt any developer into doing something about that, and the only developer working on this now doesn't really need that as motivation. So I wouldn't exaggerate the importance of this nit. (By ``reading order'', I presume that you mean visual order, not logical order. Apologies if I misunderstood.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-15 5:20 ` Kenichi Handa 2009-09-15 8:08 ` David Kastrup @ 2009-09-15 17:12 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-09-15 17:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kenichi Handa; +Cc: kawabata.taichi, emacs-devel > From: Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org> > Cc: kawabata.taichi@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:20:29 +0900 > > When one sees that Arabic is correctly displayed in HELLO, he may > misunderstand that Arabic is supported. That's why we left the greeting itself in the logical (a.k.a. reading) order. Only the name of the language is in visual order. I think this is a good compromise, and given that it was just changed in Emacs 23.1 (from the logical order for both the language name and the greeting), I suggest that we leave it at that for the moment. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
* Re: new Emacs HELLO file?? 2009-09-08 0:12 ` kawabata.taichi 2009-09-08 2:53 ` Stephen J. Turnbull 2009-09-08 3:11 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-09-09 0:47 ` Juri Linkov 2 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread From: Juri Linkov @ 2009-09-09 0:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: kawabata.taichi; +Cc: Chong Yidong, Andreas Schwab, emacs-devel > Language Tags are not recommended by the Unicode (as long as there is > other ways to describe language, such as XML lang attributes), but it is > the only way to describe language in plain text. Or switch we switch > HELLO file from plain text to some XML format? Or maybe switch to a simpler markup like in emacs/etc/enriched.doc (and add the language tag support to this format). > I'll attach updated HELLO examples as follows, that incorporates all the > languages I could find "HELLO" word, plus Language Tag usage examples > (someday Emacs may support it?) and fixed the logical order of Arabic > language. Thanks, your new list is surprisingly compact. I have only a few comments. 1. In the current HELLO file the greeting in Slovak is correct (see http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dobr%C3%BD_de%C5%88 ) and displays non-ASCII characters. I think it's better to keep the current greeting for Slovak. 2. Esperanto used to display a nice diacritical pangram "Eĥoŝanĝo ĉiuĵaŭde". Even thought it's not a greeting, I think we should keep it. 3. You could replace the old Euro currency U+20A0 ₠ with the new one U+20AC €. 4. Klingon uses the Private Use Area U+F8D0 - U+F8FF http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Test_Klingon.html 5. You've removed charsets jisx0201 and jisx0208 from Japanese greetings. Is it because they are not needed for font selection, or just because the transfer charset in your message was utf-8? -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-09-15 17:20 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 40+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2009-08-28 21:27 new Emacs HELLO file?? kawabata.taichi 2009-08-28 22:19 ` Juri Linkov 2009-08-29 2:16 ` 川幡 太一 2009-08-29 3:31 ` Stefan Monnier 2009-08-29 5:46 ` Daniel Clemente 2009-08-29 22:43 ` Juri Linkov 2009-08-30 1:16 ` kawabata.taichi 2009-08-30 3:12 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-08-31 3:33 ` Richard Stallman 2009-08-31 16:10 ` kawabata.taichi 2009-08-31 17:07 ` Rupert Swarbrick 2009-08-31 16:16 ` Juri Linkov 2009-08-30 20:48 ` Juri Linkov 2009-08-31 15:12 ` Chong Yidong 2009-08-31 16:14 ` Juri Linkov 2009-08-31 16:15 ` Andreas Schwab 2009-08-31 16:32 ` David Kastrup 2009-08-31 17:02 ` Andreas Schwab 2009-09-01 11:41 ` Kenichi Handa 2009-09-01 21:27 ` Juri Linkov 2009-09-03 13:07 ` Kenichi Handa 2009-09-06 18:20 ` 牛粥 2009-09-06 20:01 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-09-06 21:08 ` 牛粥 2009-09-07 1:02 ` Kenichi Handa 2009-09-07 1:01 ` Kenichi Handa 2009-08-31 17:55 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-08-31 22:03 ` Andreas Schwab 2009-09-08 0:12 ` kawabata.taichi 2009-09-08 2:53 ` Stephen J. Turnbull 2009-09-12 13:52 ` Per Starbäck 2009-09-12 17:51 ` 川幡 太一 2009-09-08 3:11 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-09-12 17:45 ` Taichi KAWABATA 2009-09-12 19:39 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-09-15 5:20 ` Kenichi Handa 2009-09-15 8:08 ` David Kastrup 2009-09-15 17:20 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-09-15 17:12 ` Eli Zaretskii 2009-09-09 0:47 ` Juri Linkov
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).