From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Silk icon set for Gnus and synchronizing it into Emacs Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:37:16 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87fwqdk7j7.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <87sjugi4rc.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87aaglsvjk.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87lj05ohcf.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1300905466 17887 80.91.229.12 (23 Mar 2011 18:37:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 18:37:46 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 23 19:37:42 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q2Sw8-000106-HK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:37:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34681 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Q2Sw7-0007jK-Th for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:37:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=57023 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Q2Sw0-0007hP-KH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:37:34 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q2Svz-0000Wn-7k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:37:32 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:47128) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q2Svy-0000WK-Tj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:37:31 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q2Svx-0000rA-CK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:37:29 +0100 Original-Received: from 38.98.147.130 ([38.98.147.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:37:29 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by 38.98.147.130 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:37:29 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 62 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.98.147.130 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110016 (No Gnus v0.16) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:wGGE43YfHga+kAxRNpcS5NJtHYo= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:137597 Archived-At: On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:51:44 -0400 Chong Yidong wrote: CY> Ted Zlatanov writes: >> On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:43:19 -0500 Ted Zlatanov wrote: >> TZ> For Gnus I'd like to bring in the Silk icon set... This is to TZ> serve together with Gnome icon sets... The goal is to use the best TZ> available icon, subject to the user's preferences, especially on TZ> platforms where Gnome icon themes are not available. CY> Do you have any specific icons in mind, that are not present in the CY> Gnome icon set? There's two issues. One, Gnome themes are meant for system appearance, NOT for applications (although applications can use them). I think the Silk-only *names* are worth including for their semantic meaning, e.g. "css_valid" which Gnome themes don't have (they go by MIME type but can't combine that with the "valid" meaning). This is not a shortcoming of the Gnome themes, they just don't cover the same territory that Silk does. Two, the standard Gnome icons are pretty comprehensive, looking at http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html, but they require Gnome. I think we can do better when Gnome is not installed or available. CY> License aside (see below), I am leery of this move: CY> 1. The Silk icon set is 700 files. Adding 700 files to the Emacs CY> distribution, just because some of these might be used by Emacs CY> libraries at some point, is unreasonable.. We could add them as a tar file or a single image that can be then cut up or indexed into, like http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/silk/previews/index_abc.png. A reliable, always available set of semantically meaningful and easily recognizable icons would be a very good thing. Right now Emacs doesn't have that on non-Gnome platforms. I think applications will start using the Silk icons very quickly if they are provided. That's just my opinion, of course, but at least for Gnus we plan to do so. Would it be acceptable to make Silk an ELPA package? That seems like a cleaner solution... CY> 2. The right approach is to use system icons whenever possible. I disagree. The system icons are not sufficient to represent application functionality. When we try to force applications to use just the system icons we end up with bad UI results. Compare Silk's icons to the Gnome standard icons and you'll see they both have advantages. CY> Rather than adding icon files in support where the x-gtk-stock-map CY> functionality doesn't exist, it's better to improve those platforms CY> by implementing facilities analogous to x-gtk-stock-map. Sorry, I don't understand. You're saying we should improve W32 and Mac OS X and Solaris, etc.? Ted