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From: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Anyone building Emacs trunk with MinGW w64 (32 bits)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 13:34:02 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87fvzibarp.fsf@wanadoo.es> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 83r4j2z7nw.fsf@gnu.org

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> There's no contradiction.  These are 2 different situations involved
> here: the first one where Windows-specific makefiles are used with
> native Windows tools, the second one where Unix makefiles are used
> with tools that can produce and grok them.

Okay.

>> What new requirements would add running ./configure on Windows, as per
>> your plan?
>
> MSYS and the auxiliary MSYS tools will have to be installed on the
> end-user system.

Ugh! I strive to keep my machines Cygwin and MSYS-free (being MSYSGit
the only allowed trespasser, for obvious reasons.)

I'm not saying that I'll stop building Emacs the day MSYS becomes a
requirement, but you'll admit that it is a heavy, potentially
problematic one.

> I've used CMake in a package much less complex than Emacs (Gawk, if
> you want to know), and my conclusion was that it also requires some
> non-trivial amount of tinkering, in order to work well with the MinGW
> development environment.  And that tinkering needs good knowledge of
> CMake, something not easily gleaned from the available docs.  So I see
> no significant advantage going that way, unless mainline Emacs
> development switches to CMake.

I'm not saying that it would be trivial. And some MinGW-specific
tinkering would be necessary, yes. But for the user it would be
hassle-free (well, CMake with the "MinGW Makefiles" generator doesn't
want a `sh.exe' on your PATH, but it explicitly tells you so when you
start the build.)

> By contrast, using the Posix configure script and Posix Makefile.in
> files will relieve us from at least one of the duties: the need to
> track mainline development in a separate set of scripts that no one of
> the head maintainers understands well, or wants to.  That is a huge
> gain, which might just countermand the disadvantage of asking users to
> install MSYS.

I'm not inclined to adding responsibilites to the users for the
(understandable) convenience of the developers, if other options exists.
Rather I'll prefer a system that is easy enough to maintain so the
hassle becomes less serious. And then, if the system is cross-platform
and there are developers who enjoy using it for their hacking, you'll
get some help for free.

>> I know that this proposal was rejected twice before, but I'll bet that
>> making ./configure work on Windows would require less work than a
>> complete CMake build specification for Emacs.
>
> I guess you meant "less work" for CMake, not for ./configure.

Yes, sorry.

> However, my experience does not support your bet.  Running the current
> configure script with MSYS tools is actually a no-brainer: I already
> tried that, and it worked out of the box with no need to change
> anything.
>
> The only issue is what I mentioned above: that the configure script
> probes the development environment, where many features are missing,
> features that were implemented in the Emacs sources instead.

One such thing is easily abstractable (sp?) on CMake: "run this platform
check unless this or that condition holds, for which the answer is
that."

The declarative/procedural nature of CMake makes so much things trivial
to implement compared against autotools/automake.




  reply	other threads:[~2013-03-26 12:34 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 91+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-03-23 14:32 Anyone building Emacs trunk with MinGW w64 (32 bits) Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-23 15:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-23 15:49   ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-23 17:49     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-23 19:47       ` Andy Moreton
2013-03-23 20:06         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-23 20:18           ` Cross-compiling with MinGW on GNU/Linux (was: Anyone building Emacs trunk with MinGW w64 (32 bits)) Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-23 20:27             ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-24  9:08   ` 64-bit port " cg
2013-03-24 14:00     ` Fabrice Popineau
2013-03-24 15:11       ` 64-bit port cg
2013-03-26 21:05         ` Fabrice Popineau
2013-03-24 15:40       ` 64-bit port (was: Anyone building Emacs trunk with MinGW w64 (32 bits)) Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-25 13:57 ` Anyone building Emacs trunk with MinGW w64 (32 bits) Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-25 17:09   ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-25 20:30     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-25 20:49       ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-26  2:24       ` Stefan Monnier
2013-03-26  6:34         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26 11:10           ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-26 12:07             ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26 12:34               ` Óscar Fuentes [this message]
2013-03-26 13:24                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26 16:17                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-26 16:32                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-25 17:41   ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-25 18:44     ` rzl24ozi
2013-03-25 19:11       ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-25 19:46         ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-25 20:48           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-25 21:30             ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-25 21:37               ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-25 22:02                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-25 22:07               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26  8:25                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26 11:48                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-26 12:42                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26 13:54                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26 14:06                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26 20:49                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-26 21:24                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26 21:58                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-26 22:30                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-27  7:24                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-25 20:38         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-25 21:24         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-25 21:33           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-25 21:35           ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-25 23:41         ` rzl24ozi
2013-03-26  1:40           ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-26  6:42             ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26  9:41               ` rzl24ozi
2013-03-26 13:52                 ` rzl24ozi
2013-03-26 14:17                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26 15:48                     ` rzl24ozi
2013-03-26 16:07                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26 17:38                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26 18:13                         ` rzl24ozi
2013-03-26 18:57                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26 20:17                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-03-26 20:34                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-27  8:17                             ` rzl24ozi
2013-03-27  8:41                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-27  9:34                                 ` rzl24ozi
2013-03-27 10:10                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-27 11:35                                     ` rzl24ozi
2013-03-27 12:03                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-27 12:57                                         ` rzl24ozi
2013-03-27 13:27                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-27 22:03                                             ` rzl24ozi
2013-03-28  6:40                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-27 13:17                                         ` using GnuTLS 3.x and certificate checks (was: Anyone building Emacs trunk with MinGW w64 (32 bits)) Ted Zlatanov
2013-04-10 20:35                                           ` using GnuTLS 3.x and certificate checks Christopher Schmidt
2013-05-19  2:57                                             ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-05-19 19:34                                               ` Christopher Schmidt
2013-05-19 22:59                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-06-05 15:07                                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-06-05 15:59                                                     ` Christopher Schmidt
2013-06-05 15:08                                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-06-05 17:44                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-06-05 18:03                                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-06-05 18:42                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2013-06-05 15:13                                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-06-05 20:55                                             ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-06-06 13:06                                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-10-07 22:24                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-10-10 23:20                                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-10-10 23:37                                                   ` Glenn Morris
2013-10-11 13:48                                                     ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-03-26 14:33                   ` Anyone building Emacs trunk with MinGW w64 (32 bits) Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-26 16:56                     ` rzl24ozi

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