From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r116461: Connect electric-indent-mode up with CC Mode. Bug #15478. Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 01:49:28 +0900 Message-ID: <87fvm6ql47.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20140308225820.GB2726@acm.acm> <20140309123711.GA2615@acm.acm> <20140316223509.GD3854@acm.acm> <20140319224231.GB4783@acm.acm> <20140322131350.GA3163@acm.acm> <20140322231012.GB3562@acm.acm> <87wqfkgk02.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <871txsge04.fsf@yandex.ru> <87ior2rac9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1395766775 28725 80.91.229.3 (25 Mar 2014 16:59:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 16:59:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Steinar Bang Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 25 17:59:43 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WSUhQ-0002zU-Gu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:59:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42929 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WSUhQ-0003Ft-3o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:59:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43384) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WSUcr-0005Gi-SD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:59:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WSUYB-0000N2-RT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:54:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:38268) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WSUYB-0008Nl-77 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:50:07 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D1BA970905; Wed, 26 Mar 2014 01:49:28 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 799591A28DC; Wed, 26 Mar 2014 01:49:28 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta34) "kale" 2a0f42961ed4 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.224 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:170969 Archived-At: Steinar Bang writes: > >>>>> "Stephen J. Turnbull" : > > >> You might get used to "RET reindents" and stop hitting TAB that often ;-) > > > I'm very unlikely to get used to it. Specifically, in the very > > annoying case where unconventional indentation gets blown away by it > > (TAB won't fix that!) > > I've been C-j'ing to get return and indent, since I first startet using > emacs, back in 1987 or 1988 or thereabouts. > > Works for me. *sigh* That is simply not the point, it has worked forever (I started using Emacs in 1979, don't remember if `newline-and-indent' was implemented in pre-GNU Emacsen) and I don't expect it to stop working. There are two problems with binding `reindent-then-newline-and-indent' (RTNAT) and `newline-and-indent' (NAT) but not `newline'. The first is that the simple, reliable "newline" behavior is not easily available in macros and the like. The second is that for many users RTNAT is going to be identical to NAT 95% of the time, or perhaps more, depending on how often they edit code such that the changed syntax requires changed indentation. This makes one simply an unreliable version of the other, ISTM. If a user likes RTNAT behavior, they probably are willing to put up with the occasional spurious indentation change -- and won't use the NAT binding. If they don't like that behavior, they won't use the RTNAT binding anyway. I don't think this is good UI. Keystrokes are scarce in Emacs. They shouldn't be spent on keeping users of different preferences happy, that's the job of minor modes.