From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Further CC-mode changes Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:22:50 +0200 Message-ID: <87fvfqvn11.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <53632C6F.5070903@dancol.org> <20140511211351.GC2759@acm.acm> <536FEA43.5090402@dancol.org> <20140516175226.GB3267@acm.acm> <537653A0.2070109@dancol.org> <20140518213331.GB2577@acm.acm> <20140912235948.GA4045@acm.acm> <20140913151055.GB3431@acm.acm> <87vboo2rgk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87wq93ve4p.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87egvb2kye.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <8761gn2f0e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1410940023 32607 80.91.229.3 (17 Sep 2014 07:47:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:47:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 17 09:46:56 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XU9x1-0005B5-Mu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 09:46:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42531 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XU9x1-0003MR-C2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 03:46:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36486) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XU9wq-0003Fd-Gu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 03:46:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XU9wR-0001FX-NZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 03:46:44 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:45549) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XU9wR-0001Cq-KC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 03:46:19 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52466 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XU9h8-0002ER-AB; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 03:30:30 -0400 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 700E3E05E5; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:22:50 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <8761gn2f0e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Wed, 17 Sep 2014 10:48:49 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:174403 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > Stefan Monnier writes: > > > The issue is not "backward compatibility" but *how* to get it. > > Evidently not for Glenn, David, and IIRC RMS, though. I think in > fact you are in a minority in the Emacs leadership[1] when it comes > to backwards compatibility. You are mixing up two entirely different topics under the title of "backward" compatibility. One thing is how long user-provided code should be expected to continue working in new Emacs versions. How long should old interfaces leading to more cumbersome code continue to be provided? But that's not what we are talking about here _at_ _all_. Quite the contrary. The answer to that has more or less been resolved to "pretty long" and that makes the actual question even possible: And that question is: how long should new code intended for Emacs refrain from relying on new interfaces and new features which have been created for a reason? And the answer "15 years because XEmacs won't upgrade" is not satisfactory. At some point of time, people who are happy with a 15 year old Emacs variant will have to face updating either XEmacs, or backporting software they care for, or just using older versions of software on XEmacs. -- David Kastrup