From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 05:44:38 +0200 Message-ID: <87fvex7vq1.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <54193A70.9020901@member.fsf.org> <87wq8pwjen.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <837g0ptnlj.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3yxwdr6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tx3tmi3t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <834mvttgsf.fsf@gnu.org> <87lhp5m99w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9ztm5oa.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87d2ahm3nw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <871tqneyvl.fsf@netris.org> <87zjd9swfj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87oatnqpml.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87k34b8diu.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <877g0aq6v0.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1412831813 23007 80.91.229.3 (9 Oct 2014 05:16:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 05:16:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, mhw@netris.org, dmantipov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org, handa@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, eliz@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 09 07:16:46 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xc65l-0007iG-Fw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2014 07:16:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40412 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xc65l-0003sB-1a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2014 01:16:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59208) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xc65U-0003ou-R8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2014 01:16:29 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xc65U-00045T-2F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2014 01:16:28 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:59351) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xc65U-00045N-06 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2014 01:16:28 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38279 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xc65B-00051J-47; Thu, 09 Oct 2014 01:16:09 -0400 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 86CDCE060A; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 05:44:38 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <877g0aq6v0.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Thu, 09 Oct 2014 12:06:43 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:175163 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > David Kastrup writes: > > > Newsflash: Emacs 19 has been released in the mean time. That's good > > since we have an example we can study now with regard to the problems > > text properties may cause. > > Newsflash: we're not talking about text properties in Emacs, which has > historically been hostile to both embedding in other apps and to FFIs, > and is not normally used as a network daemon, It is used as a network application (I mean, what else to use as news and mail reader?). There are currently discussions on the list about the way to do TLS in a secure manner. > We're talking about text properties in Guile, which is designed for > embedding and and extension (including wrapping foreign functions). A > Guile with text properties hasn't been written, let alone released > AFAIK. I dunno about the "network daemon" part, but Mark mentioned > that as a target application area for Guile. Text properties are not in files or network streams. They will not magically materialize and cause trouble. > It would be "nice" and "efficient" for Guile to implement properties > natively so that Emacs could just use those, but Mark is correct to > worry that those properties would be used to bypass validation modules > written for pre-property Guile versions. Sigh. At any rate, this is basically a non-issue since GUILE is perfectly capable of supporting custom extensible string type stacks on the existing commands like it provides a custom extensible numeric type stack. Its object programming system GOOPS has been designed for that sort of extensibility. -- David Kastrup