From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mike Gerwitz Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 14:23:18 -0500 Message-ID: <87fvc8kdsp.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87388bnzha.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87k31mdbhe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tx0qiv45.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9wqd3i5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1419189842 14957 80.91.229.3 (21 Dec 2014 19:24:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 19:24:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tom Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 21 20:23:55 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2m6b-0006eC-A7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 20:23:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38132 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2m6a-0001iE-C7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 14:23:52 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36708) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2m6S-0001hz-Gk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 14:23:49 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2m6M-0001xf-0G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 14:23:44 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:36147) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2m6L-0001xb-TB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 14:23:37 -0500 Original-Received: from cpe-69-204-47-184.buffalo.res.rr.com ([69.204.47.184]:45865 helo=mikegerwitz-pc.gerwitz.local.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2m6L-0004RE-Ha; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 14:23:37 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Tom's message of "Sat, 20 Dec 2014 18:05:53 +0000 (UTC)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:180438 Archived-At: =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 18:05:53 +0000, Tom wrote: > Regarding accessibility the current HTML manuals could also be > made more accessible (i.e. work like info). It just involves adding > some JS code to the HTML. I consider adding JS to be more of a kluge than a solution; while this does add additional functionality, it is specific to the page (not handled by the web browser), non-standard, and wouldn't function in a nice text-based browser. Even as a web developer, I rarely enable JavaScript and consider a web page to be broken if it requires it. In this case, the page would function just fine without (and would therefore not be broken), but the experience would differ. If the goal (according to ESR) is to appeal to the younger crowd, this wouldn't do that. I see no problem with our current format, which can generate decent HTML (though it could be improved upon), and which can be cached by the browser for instant page views to already-visited nodes. Users who do care about keyboard-based navigation can use either access keys[0], or install an extension (I use Vimperator). I would not want a web page to dictate that for me. [0]: http://mdn.beonex.com/en/HTML/Global_attributes.html =2D --=20 Mike Gerwitz Free Software Hacker | GNU Maintainer http://mikegerwitz.com FSF Member #5804 | GPG Key ID: 0x8EE30EAB =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJUlx4nAAoJEPIruBWO4w6r0egP/1gaoXr+lUBmw0SPH/NpWkjG U/eJtvbLsChJt5KrdQDnEytu8ez/4l6ixWDj7QKQIJQY0HTYysscitr7jGVdL740 Gp77gyb+xje1Uek+Z1giYqqfhvSwjadn09YYAkNpFcFCxvzCK616WBBlXR3Kjb6f yhvm1sLFOjJ3NHQsMN2K8WeDpZLvpUveGT05lopoGLOH8xGpHNlRbXKcLXvzVZpj PizR5/u0XxDSpxav/f3tOckhDQyh201h08OVKoVdI86JGdz51I3HTYfChbGVJnpt HkL5GLKl6MzS8xqgTvaK5Pzeo1nQUs3Q+x+Q3Db4aDwvNZ/Ps63qUeYi/ktJBzDC Uipg9j6bfzDwg0jQzX1WAc68zaOdrcd8kp3DnUtnSkAXVWeKkCpASaCQW2CzL+gI Q552H6bnQz2HWW26w0Yrq1tuwOyd8b0DDzU1fTUkpd8/B0vf/fCB4n48sWq26df2 uCwNX6y6waFAR8/c9bpppuY/s7yf6b/oEorP8vzKlJtQY8DJPTUXmmBvX54zneId aYfPRLs88bV6t2MYYDeW+Z4N5ECX+lCBGVdjLUyKdKPW2NwG34Mg/vg+u9Kg8/mt 17whHkEooBsqSHa86vslHqVz2qLklgKRlidMJClwpy8VNd/HKIP5z8cbmwQ08Lci 8t/kT3vTwnQyS+rzjwW+ =3DisH6 =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE-----