From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Michael Albinus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Change Tramp syntax Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 19:00:27 +0200 Message-ID: <87fuhppgt0.fsf@detlef> References: <20170309184457.29604.13048@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20170309184458.08C9725FCF@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <87k27xfo3q.fsf@detlef> <87efy5fmml.fsf@detlef> <87mvcti5he.fsf_-_@detlef> <83shmldumk.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1491238877 25689 195.159.176.226 (3 Apr 2017 17:01:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 17:01:17 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 03 19:01:11 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cv5Li-0005HK-CY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 19:01:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60339 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cv5Lo-0003f2-Dl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 13:01:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48923) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cv5LH-0003em-4v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 13:00:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cv5LD-0002k1-Ss for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 13:00:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:57150) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cv5LD-0002iV-Ia for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 13:00:31 -0400 Original-Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([87.146.50.186]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MRGPP-1cXanT0dv5-00Ubgr for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 19:00:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: (John Wiegley's message of "Mon, 03 Apr 2017 08:54:26 -0700") X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:ZYr3n056QSPonC3VxrppNZ65cIulgpZ9rFmEkS+a8Edwq5ZbNjs Zn3r8jFRpm/pVt0ozVkOnmf7ypMLC7DsfrxR9Izxvi58LYGhlZxAYbSG8LCprqwUg5QBnfE MBSzF0jI3dToXbDGjwrxpj9XXdqJHBVlSwPy91j2ZHoGGY2jhlcUl8NC08bNq4SHm3MUk20 8oRBr2YwlsdPgDRTxcZEQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:39eWiBafYUw=:LTmwhTiS+9gW8UlkTKwSiD wjKMhRmEzlj3O2kaTmWCkYVshyqqRSyrVLcARfgPu7yahI9fUJ4D9O8Ld0jKfSv7nwc6gCpqM 3oq0qpQWnpgvoF5cUGQ1zGEbeI9MOyTenzRr2Es7p23Evtzv0M0Rs7dLfVqx9U/ZaoxK/ruCI vilhS1qzx4pqSO+VQph3XeaTYXy61xtVN/t9j/PRu8OMWSA9e6mX3j4KdbljgfOqHRJBIxaYI 6Y8s+/ZOB4J6lXZvM6+vsd6/fuCIB1sb6ZAvD/a4UWXqyhaUJjgJIoX/RA0Z0b+QdxHrFSauC Our8cqMYWM+rRTxMO4KvCG//jL/zx8rr+TpbPTJPFfPkSR2y9hkrVmHN27Ue5VNLuTDxYwr5P tBMQRtlcDIpy3ikL+5FZBRKereHKpmBUN939K/Yy8aIkYyRwSVvqTdKqZBVSDyarw3Ph30jzn djABENelLhdDNlksq5hpRlv788nVDJyTu5uQxT9rYERTp6ZIIHNQ7New7OOyCmES7GJSSqufj y+4qUWPrAYaRPHAa030ish5bOoIdapLyI0HEGCIh6w6KFzYMm11glX11gtekURCqukWiQ1+r5 245iEKwdkmmZvlV6dX8I9mZUnTIszMoDxRtO+EfIMgbmPmN4IkvqiZF/8YOsv/yjNW0/Nro5E lBQpvMwuSQa+BgWv8ghx1vh0Q20s4SJhEl5mGHKmgbQPsOLnfxVcH4vNPEA3yIAmMnX4efPIJ +p+eP5OQI32Qr66YGRlVHhgiBNwbzEvkwmAHtzkcU9BX8rCWrKyCUMxFiG8AQqtKyiK0Wlnn X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 212.227.15.15 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:213619 Archived-At: John Wiegley writes: Hi John, > Changing from "/host:file" to "/-:host:file" seems like an unnecessary change > in syntax -- when the first form is so easy to use -- but only because I don't > understand the difficulties it causes. However, I imagine many users, who like > me are long-familiar with the first form, will wonder why we had to move to a > more complex syntax *when the first one has been working for years and years*. It didn't work ever. User and host name completion was based on a terrible heuristic. There have been bug reports, plus a many years long dissense between Stefan and me about `non-essential'. Enough reasons that I decided to solve it once and forever. > How are people using the new Tramp to learn that "/-:" is replaced by "/"? > Will "/host:file" just be broken for them, and they have to understand both > (1) that it's a Tramp-related issue, and (2) how to find the answer in the > Tramp manual or NEWS file? There's no need to use "-". You could always use "ssh" instead, if this annoys your eyes. > If there are more people like me out there, relying on this syntax as heavily, > I have a sense this is going to feel like a concession that does not benefit > the user. Unless I'm mistaken, the user gains nothing from the change, but now > has to remember to add "-:" to path names long since burned into finger > memory. > > - Is there *any way* to retain ange-ftp syntax, maybe even as a hack that > rewrites /foo:bar into /-:foo:bar, and can be required from a compat module? See the Tramp manual, Frequently Asked Questions section. It explains several possibilities how to shorten the filename. Maybe it shall be documented more prominently. The other way back to the ange-ftp syntax I've mentioned in my announcement: You are invited to implement a solution in Tramp :-) I failed. > - What is the user experience when ange-ftp paths are used, after this change > is made? > > Thanks, Best regards, Michael.