Emacs 27.1 released

Emacs 27.1 released

[Nicolas Petton]

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Hi!

Version 27.1 of the Emacs text editor is now available.

For more information on Emacs, see:
  https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs

You can retrieve the source from your nearest GNU mirror by using one
of the following links:
  https://ftpmirror.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.xz
  https://ftpmirror.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.gz

You can get the PGP signatures at
  https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.xz.sig
  https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.gz.sig

The tarball is signed with the following GPG key, which can be found on
public PGP key servers:

  D405AA2C862C54F17EEE6BE0E8BCD7866AFCF978

To retrieve the key from a PGP key server, evaluate

  gpg --keyserver hkp://keys.gnupg.net --recv-keys D405AA2C862C54F17EEE6BE0E8BCD7866AFCF978

You can choose a mirror explicitly from the list at:
  https://www.gnu.org/prep/ftp.html

Mirrors may take some time to update; the main GNU ftp server is at:
  https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/

Emacs 27.1 has a wide variety of new features, including:

  - Built-in support for arbitrary-size integers
  - Text shaping with HarfBuzz
  - Native support for JSON parsing
  - Better support for Cairo drawing
  - Portable dumping used instead of unexec
  - Support for XDG conventions for init files
  - Additional early-init initialization file
  - Lexical-binding is used by default
  - Built-in support for tab bar and tab-line
  - Support for resizing and rotating of images without ImageMagick

There are many more changes; for a summary see the etc/NEWS file, which
you can view from Emacs with `C-h n'.

For the complete list of changes and the people who made them, see the
various ChangeLog files in the source distribution.  For a summary of
all the people who have contributed to Emacs, see the etc/AUTHORS file.

The online manuals and website will be updated shortly.

Printed copies of the Emacs manual are available for purchase from the
Free Software Foundation's online store at:
https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/

Regards,
Nico

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Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Stefan Kangas]

First, a big congratulations. Second:

>   - Lexical-binding is used by default

Maybe this statement should be moderated somewhat.  I see in NEWS only that:

** Lexical binding is now used by default when evaluating interactive Elisp.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > ** Lexical binding is now used by default when evaluating interactive Elisp.

Does that mean that evaluating (setq foo (....)) will fail to
leave foo set?  I doubt that would ever be convenient for anyone.

However, I'm running master from June and it seems to set foo ok.



-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Noam Postavsky]

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 at 22:24, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:

>   > ** Lexical binding is now used by default when evaluating interactive Elisp.
>
> Does that mean that evaluating (setq foo (....)) will fail to
> leave foo set?  I doubt that would ever be convenient for anyone.

No, lexical binding mode only (directly) affects let-bindings. setq of
free variables will still set the dynamic/global value.

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Stefan Kangas]

Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:

> Maybe this statement should be moderated somewhat.  I see in NEWS only that:
>
> ** Lexical binding is now used by default when evaluating interactive Elisp.

I've been seeing some confusion about this on Reddit, where people have
understood this to be the case generally.  Perhaps we should clarify the
text currently available at https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:

> Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:
>
>> Maybe this statement should be moderated somewhat.  I see in NEWS only that:
>>
>> ** Lexical binding is now used by default when evaluating interactive Elisp.
>
> I've been seeing some confusion about this on Reddit, where people have
> understood this to be the case generally.  Perhaps we should clarify the
> text currently available at https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

Definitely.  In fact, I think it would be better not to mention lexical
binding at all in the short-short NEWS overview there -- whether there's
lexical binding in the M-: command or not is something that almost
nobody will ever notice.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

RE: Emacs 27.1 released

[Drew Adams]

> > I've been seeing some confusion about this on Reddit, where people have
> > understood this to be the case generally.  Perhaps we should clarify the
> > text currently available at ...
> 
> Definitely.  In fact, I think it would be better not to mention lexical
> binding at all in the short-short NEWS overview there -- whether there's
> lexical binding in the M-: command or not is something that almost
> nobody will ever notice.

+1.  Maybe not "almost nobody".  But yes, this is a
relatively minor change whose description can easily
lead to (major) confusion.

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Mingde (Matthew) Zeng]

Wow!! Configurations!!

Nicolas Petton <nico@petton.fr> writes:

> Hi!
>
> Version 27.1 of the Emacs text editor is now available.
>
> For more information on Emacs, see:
>   https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs
>
> You can retrieve the source from your nearest GNU mirror by using one
> of the following links:
>   https://ftpmirror.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.xz
>   https://ftpmirror.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.gz
>
> You can get the PGP signatures at
>   https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.xz.sig
>   https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.gz.sig
>
> The tarball is signed with the following GPG key, which can be found on
> public PGP key servers:
>
>   D405AA2C862C54F17EEE6BE0E8BCD7866AFCF978
>
> To retrieve the key from a PGP key server, evaluate
>
>   gpg --keyserver hkp://keys.gnupg.net --recv-keys D405AA2C862C54F17EEE6BE0E8BCD7866AFCF978
>
> You can choose a mirror explicitly from the list at:
>   https://www.gnu.org/prep/ftp.html
>
> Mirrors may take some time to update; the main GNU ftp server is at:
>   https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/
>
> Emacs 27.1 has a wide variety of new features, including:
>
>   - Built-in support for arbitrary-size integers
>   - Text shaping with HarfBuzz
>   - Native support for JSON parsing
>   - Better support for Cairo drawing
>   - Portable dumping used instead of unexec
>   - Support for XDG conventions for init files
>   - Additional early-init initialization file
>   - Lexical-binding is used by default
>   - Built-in support for tab bar and tab-line
>   - Support for resizing and rotating of images without ImageMagick
>
> There are many more changes; for a summary see the etc/NEWS file, which
> you can view from Emacs with `C-h n'.
>
> For the complete list of changes and the people who made them, see the
> various ChangeLog files in the source distribution.  For a summary of
> all the people who have contributed to Emacs, see the etc/AUTHORS file.
>
> The online manuals and website will be updated shortly.
>
> Printed copies of the Emacs manual are available for purchase from the
> Free Software Foundation's online store at:
> https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/
>
> Regards,
> Nico


--
Mingde (Matthew) Zeng

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[황병희]

Nicolas Petton <nico@petton.fr> writes:

> Hi!
>
> Version 27.1 of the Emacs text editor is now available.

Thank You Always^^^

Sincerely, Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _和合團結_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Jay Sulzberger]

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020, Nicolas Petton <nico@petton.fr> wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Version 27.1 of the Emacs text editor is now available.

Dear Emacs Workers, thank you!

Strong letter to follow.^W^W^W^WI remain, as ever your fellow student
of history and probability, and long time Emacs fan,
Jay Sulzberger

>
> For more information on Emacs, see:
>  https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs
>
> You can retrieve the source from your nearest GNU mirror by using one
> of the following links:
>  https://ftpmirror.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.xz
>  https://ftpmirror.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.gz
>
> You can get the PGP signatures at
>  https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.xz.sig
>  https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.gz.sig
>
> The tarball is signed with the following GPG key, which can be found on
> public PGP key servers:
>
>  D405AA2C862C54F17EEE6BE0E8BCD7866AFCF978
>
> To retrieve the key from a PGP key server, evaluate
>
>  gpg --keyserver hkp://keys.gnupg.net --recv-keys D405AA2C862C54F17EEE6BE0E8BCD7866AFCF978
>
> You can choose a mirror explicitly from the list at:
>  https://www.gnu.org/prep/ftp.html
>
> Mirrors may take some time to update; the main GNU ftp server is at:
>  https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/
>
> Emacs 27.1 has a wide variety of new features, including:
>
>  - Built-in support for arbitrary-size integers
>  - Text shaping with HarfBuzz
>  - Native support for JSON parsing
>  - Better support for Cairo drawing
>  - Portable dumping used instead of unexec
>  - Support for XDG conventions for init files
>  - Additional early-init initialization file
>  - Lexical-binding is used by default
>  - Built-in support for tab bar and tab-line
>  - Support for resizing and rotating of images without ImageMagick
>
> There are many more changes; for a summary see the etc/NEWS file, which
> you can view from Emacs with `C-h n'.
>
> For the complete list of changes and the people who made them, see the
> various ChangeLog files in the source distribution.  For a summary of
> all the people who have contributed to Emacs, see the etc/AUTHORS file.
>
> The online manuals and website will be updated shortly.
>
> Printed copies of the Emacs manual are available for purchase from the
> Free Software Foundation's online store at:
> https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/
>
> Regards,
> Nico
>

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Ulrich Mueller]

>>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2020, Nicolas Petton wrote:

> Version 27.1 of the Emacs text editor is now available.

Thank you very much!

Could the version number in the emacs-27 branch be updated, e.g.
to 27.1.50? Otherwise Emacs built from Git will collide with the
released version.

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Ulrich Mueller <ulm@gentoo.org>
> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 10:19:02 +0200
> Cc: Emacs Devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> Could the version number in the emacs-27 branch be updated, e.g.
> to 27.1.50?

Done.

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Michael Albinus]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

Hi Eli,

>> Could the version number in the emacs-27 branch be updated, e.g.
>> to 27.1.50?
>
> Done.

Does this mean the emacs-27 branch is reopened for patches? I would like
to merge the Tramp 2.4 changes of the last 7 months, waiting in the
Tramp repository.

Best regards, Michael.

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Phil Sainty]

On 12/08/20 8:09 pm, Michael Albinus wrote:
> Does this mean the emacs-27 branch is reopened for patches?

I hope so, because I just pushed a commit to it.

Apologies if I've jumped the gun there.


-Phil

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de>
> Cc: Ulrich Mueller <ulm@gentoo.org>,  emacs-devel@gnu.org,  nico@petton.fr
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 10:09:41 +0200
> 
> Does this mean the emacs-27 branch is reopened for patches?

Yes, but please only install bugfixes which are either safe enough for
the release branch, or very urgent, or fix regressions introduced by
Emacs 26 or 27.1.  Other changes should go to master.

Thanks.

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Mattias Engdegård]

12 aug. 2020 kl. 16.21 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>:

> Yes, but please only install bugfixes which are either safe enough for
> the release branch, or very urgent, or fix regressions introduced by
> Emacs 26 or 27.1.  Other changes should go to master.

The bug fixes below (selected from ones on master made by me) should fit the criterion of being safe enough.
Any of them that you would rather not see back-ported to emacs-27?

c48bb7deb8 Preserve match data in 'kbd'
687a9d3e2f Calc: fix interval entry snag (bug#42438)
8ef84632c2 Accept lexical lambda in auto-insert-alist
6242605731 Fix spurious error in beginning-of-defun in pascal-mode (bug#41740)
73daab9991 Preserve point in pascal-mode completion (bug#41740)
2bdb2cd10d Document that {en,de}code-coding-string preserve match data
c5cf630ecd Don't clobber match data in utf-8-hfs conversion (bug#41445)
b1fe27d77d Fix calculator entry of numbers with negative exponents (bug#41347)
60cd6cce55 Calc: GCD(0,x)=GCD(x,0)=|x|, not x (bug#41279)
4af8b17149 Fix customisation of mouse-drag-and-drop-region (bug#41251)
1d559581b3 Calc: fix LU decomposition for non-numeric matrices (bug#41223)
63268253d2 Regexps cannot infloop; fix manual
20c1e7f8af Fix calculator division truncation (bug#40892)
7839390f27 Quote semanticdb-ebrowse-default-file-name in regexp
95dd8de1df chinese-hz is not ASCII compatible (bug#40407)
8d95e75eb6 utf-7 and utf-7-imap are not ASCII-compatible (bug#40407)
7195ea7532 Avoid regexp stack overflow in GDB string matching (bug#22149)

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 18:20:35 +0200, Mattias Engdegård <mattiase@acm.org> said:

    Mattias> 12 aug. 2020 kl. 16.21 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>:
    >> Yes, but please only install bugfixes which are either safe enough for
    >> the release branch, or very urgent, or fix regressions introduced by
    >> Emacs 26 or 27.1.  Other changes should go to master.

    Mattias> The bug fixes below (selected from ones on master made by me) should fit the criterion of being safe enough.
    Mattias> Any of them that you would rather not see back-ported to emacs-27?

    Mattias> c48bb7deb8 Preserve match data in 'kbd'
    Mattias> 687a9d3e2f Calc: fix interval entry snag (bug#42438)
    Mattias> 8ef84632c2 Accept lexical lambda in auto-insert-alist
    Mattias> 6242605731 Fix spurious error in beginning-of-defun in pascal-mode (bug#41740)
    Mattias> 73daab9991 Preserve point in pascal-mode completion (bug#41740)
    Mattias> 2bdb2cd10d Document that {en,de}code-coding-string preserve match data
    Mattias> c5cf630ecd Don't clobber match data in utf-8-hfs conversion (bug#41445)
    Mattias> b1fe27d77d Fix calculator entry of numbers with negative exponents (bug#41347)
    Mattias> 60cd6cce55 Calc: GCD(0,x)=GCD(x,0)=|x|, not x (bug#41279)
    Mattias> 4af8b17149 Fix customisation of mouse-drag-and-drop-region (bug#41251)
    Mattias> 1d559581b3 Calc: fix LU decomposition for non-numeric matrices (bug#41223)
    Mattias> 63268253d2 Regexps cannot infloop; fix manual
    Mattias> 20c1e7f8af Fix calculator division truncation (bug#40892)
    Mattias> 7839390f27 Quote semanticdb-ebrowse-default-file-name in regexp
    Mattias> 95dd8de1df chinese-hz is not ASCII compatible (bug#40407)
    Mattias> 8d95e75eb6 utf-7 and utf-7-imap are not ASCII-compatible (bug#40407)
    Mattias> 7195ea7532 Avoid regexp stack overflow in GDB string matching (bug#22149)

If theyʼre safe enough now, why didnʼt they go into emacs-27
initially?

Certainly all the ones that just change documentation should be ok.

My list would be

* 23b04ef0e7 Use length field when dns-query is using TCP
* 00f7744c1b Check for IPv6 servers in dns.el

But I donʼt think either of those fit the criterion of urgent (and
theyʼre not regressions).

Robert

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Mattias Engdegård <mattiase@acm.org>
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 18:20:35 +0200
> Cc: emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> 12 aug. 2020 kl. 16.21 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>:
> 
> > Yes, but please only install bugfixes which are either safe enough for
> > the release branch, or very urgent, or fix regressions introduced by
> > Emacs 26 or 27.1.  Other changes should go to master.
> 
> The bug fixes below (selected from ones on master made by me) should fit the criterion of being safe enough.
> Any of them that you would rather not see back-ported to emacs-27?
> 
> c48bb7deb8 Preserve match data in 'kbd'

Doesn't seem urgent: we've had this forever, didn't we?

> 687a9d3e2f Calc: fix interval entry snag (bug#42438)

Doesn't seem to be very important or urgent, but since it's highly
localized, I don't mind back-porting it.

> 8ef84632c2 Accept lexical lambda in auto-insert-alist

I don't think this is important enough, but you could try convincing
me by telling more details, including when this was introduced.

> 6242605731 Fix spurious error in beginning-of-defun in pascal-mode (bug#41740)

Since this is very localized, it's fine with me.

> 73daab9991 Preserve point in pascal-mode completion (bug#41740)

OK.

> 2bdb2cd10d Document that {en,de}code-coding-string preserve match data

Documentation changes are always safe on the release branch.

> c5cf630ecd Don't clobber match data in utf-8-hfs conversion (bug#41445)

OK.

> b1fe27d77d Fix calculator entry of numbers with negative exponents (bug#41347)

OK

> 60cd6cce55 Calc: GCD(0,x)=GCD(x,0)=|x|, not x (bug#41279)

I'm uneasy with this, as it would indirectly affect many functions.
Can't this wait for Emacs 28?

> 4af8b17149 Fix customisation of mouse-drag-and-drop-region (bug#41251)

OK

> 1d559581b3 Calc: fix LU decomposition for non-numeric matrices (bug#41223)

OK

> 63268253d2 Regexps cannot infloop; fix manual

Documentation again; OK.

> 20c1e7f8af Fix calculator division truncation (bug#40892)

OK

> 7839390f27 Quote semanticdb-ebrowse-default-file-name in regexp

OK

> 95dd8de1df chinese-hz is not ASCII compatible (bug#40407)

OK

> 8d95e75eb6 utf-7 and utf-7-imap are not ASCII-compatible (bug#40407)

OK

> 7195ea7532 Avoid regexp stack overflow in GDB string matching (bug#22149)

OK

Thanks.

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Mattias Engdegård]

12 aug. 2020 kl. 18.47 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>:

>> c48bb7deb8 Preserve match data in 'kbd'
> 
> Doesn't seem urgent: we've had this forever, didn't we?

None of these changes are urgent, obviously. Does this mean that you consider this change somehow not safe enough, given your stated disjunction? Perhaps I misunderstood your criteria. This fix is of minor importance, anyway.

>> 8ef84632c2 Accept lexical lambda in auto-insert-alist
> 
> I don't think this is important enough, but you could try convincing
> me by telling more details, including when this was introduced.

The code is old and assumes that a list not starting with 'lambda' cannot be a function. That ceased to be true when lexical binding was introduced; it was a test failure on master that alerted us to it. Fixing this obvious flaw just seemed natural and risk-free. It's nothing I'd fight for, in any case.

>> 60cd6cce55 Calc: GCD(0,x)=GCD(x,0)=|x|, not x (bug#41279)
> 
> I'm uneasy with this, as it would indirectly affect many functions.

Which many functions did you have in mind? It was precisely the interaction with other functions that prompted the fix,  since Calc attempts to evaluate (simplify) arguments to higher-order constructs like sum() before those functions are applied.

> Can't this wait for Emacs 28?

Of course, it can wait indefinitely, like everything else on this list. However, I thought fixing it would be nice to our users, especially since 27.2 is a bug fix release, and the change is quite confined.

> Thanks.

Thank you very much for the quick review!

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Mattias Engdegård <mattiase@acm.org>
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 20:01:24 +0200
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> 12 aug. 2020 kl. 18.47 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>:
> 
> >> c48bb7deb8 Preserve match data in 'kbd'
> > 
> > Doesn't seem urgent: we've had this forever, didn't we?
> 
> None of these changes are urgent, obviously. Does this mean that you consider this change somehow not safe enough, given your stated disjunction?

It has a potential of affecting a lot of code and customizations,
since 'kbd' is used so widely.

> >> 8ef84632c2 Accept lexical lambda in auto-insert-alist
> > 
> > I don't think this is important enough, but you could try convincing
> > me by telling more details, including when this was introduced.
> 
> The code is old and assumes that a list not starting with 'lambda' cannot be a function. That ceased to be true when lexical binding was introduced; it was a test failure on master that alerted us to it. Fixing this obvious flaw just seemed natural and risk-free. It's nothing I'd fight for, in any case.

How easily would people bump into this in real-life use cases?  I
think the answer to that will tell how important is it to fix it in
Emacs 27.

> >> 60cd6cce55 Calc: GCD(0,x)=GCD(x,0)=|x|, not x (bug#41279)
> > 
> > I'm uneasy with this, as it would indirectly affect many functions.
> 
> Which many functions did you have in mind?

Its callers inside Calc.  Suppose there's some subtle issue with the
change, or some unintended consequence.  OTOH, how probable is it to
have a negative x here?

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Mattias Engdegård]

12 aug. 2020 kl. 20.27 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>:

> It has a potential of affecting a lot of code and customizations,
> since 'kbd' is used so widely.

I don't see how, but am not going to press the matter further.

>>>> 8ef84632c2 Accept lexical lambda in auto-insert-alist
>>> 
>>> I don't think this is important enough, but you could try convincing
>>> me by telling more details, including when this was introduced.
>> 
>> The code is old and assumes that a list not starting with 'lambda' cannot be a function. That ceased to be true when lexical binding was introduced; it was a test failure on master that alerted us to it. Fixing this obvious flaw just seemed natural and risk-free. It's nothing I'd fight for, in any case.
> 
> How easily would people bump into this in real-life use cases?  I
> think the answer to that will tell how important is it to fix it in
> Emacs 27.

We have no idea. Most bugs are never reported; people blame themselves and try a different approach, or just blame Emacs in general. That's why it's important to fix bugs we find even absent any concrete evidence that it has affected anyone else.

>>>> 60cd6cce55 Calc: GCD(0,x)=GCD(x,0)=|x|, not x (bug#41279)
>>> 
>>> I'm uneasy with this, as it would indirectly affect many functions.
>> 
>> Which many functions did you have in mind?
> 
> Its callers inside Calc.  Suppose there's some subtle issue with the
> change, or some unintended consequence.

Mind being more specific? I could certainly have overlooked something, but am not helped by these vague allegations in the slightest.

>  OTOH, how probable is it to have a negative x here?

The post-hoc probability is 1 because a user was affected by and reported the bug, but that's not the point: the erroneous simplification GCD(x, 0) -> x leads to trouble later on, as the report shows.

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Mattias Engdegård <mattiase@acm.org>
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 21:07:05 +0200
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> > How easily would people bump into this in real-life use cases?  I
> > think the answer to that will tell how important is it to fix it in
> > Emacs 27.
> 
> We have no idea. Most bugs are never reported; people blame themselves and try a different approach, or just blame Emacs in general. That's why it's important to fix bugs we find even absent any concrete evidence that it has affected anyone else.

That kind of abstract arguments don't help.  So I'm left to my own
devices, and therefore please leave this change on master.

> >>> I'm uneasy with this, as it would indirectly affect many functions.
> >> 
> >> Which many functions did you have in mind?
> > 
> > Its callers inside Calc.  Suppose there's some subtle issue with the
> > change, or some unintended consequence.
> 
> Mind being more specific?

I just counted its callers, that's all.  A change in a function that
has many callers could have unintended consequences beyond the
function itself.

> >  OTOH, how probable is it to have a negative x here?
> 
> The post-hoc probability is 1 because a user was affected by and reported the bug, but that's not the point: the erroneous simplification GCD(x, 0) -> x leads to trouble later on, as the report shows.

I thought you were going to help me make a better decision, but I
guess I was too naïve.  Please leave this one on master as well.

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Mattias Engdegård]

12 aug. 2020 kl. 21.21 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>:

> I just counted its callers, that's all.  A change in a function that
> has many callers could have unintended consequences beyond the
> function itself.

I'm very happy that you are taking an interest in Calc again, and especially that you took the trouble of digging into the ramifications of this little correction! I'm most curious to hear what you found out. You see, when the change to calcFunc-gcd was made, naturally I did look at its callers carefully to assess the impact. Now since you brought it up I've done so again, and found nothing new: all users of that function are either indifferent to the change, or actively benefit from it.

It seems clear that the code is less buggy now than before the change and should therefore be preferred for the sake of correctness. However, I could be wrong, and would very much benefit from your findings so that my mistakes can be fixed on master!

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Mattias Engdegård <mattiase@acm.org>
> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 21:50:33 +0200
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> 12 aug. 2020 kl. 21.21 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>:
> 
> > I just counted its callers, that's all.  A change in a function that
> > has many callers could have unintended consequences beyond the
> > function itself.
> 
> I'm very happy that you are taking an interest in Calc again, and especially that you took the trouble of digging into the ramifications of this little correction! I'm most curious to hear what you found out. You see, when the change to calcFunc-gcd was made, naturally I did look at its callers carefully to assess the impact. Now since you brought it up I've done so again, and found nothing new: all users of that function are either indifferent to the change, or actively benefit from it.
> 
> It seems clear that the code is less buggy now than before the change and should therefore be preferred for the sake of correctness. However, I could be wrong, and would very much benefit from your findings so that my mistakes can be fixed on master!

We are assessing this from two very different points of view: you are
thinking about fixing the bug, and I'm thinking about the dangers of
some unintended consequences of the fix destabilizing Emacs 27.2's
version of Calc.  By their very nature, unintended consequences are
unknown to you and to me, so asking for any specific details is not
useful.

(And could you please drop the thinly-veiled sarcasm, here and
elsewhere?  It makes it harder for me to discuss serious issues with
you, and I don't think I deserve the implied attitude, while doing my
job of keeping the release branch stable.)

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Mattias Engdegård]

14 aug. 2020 kl. 08.02 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>:

> We are assessing this from two very different points of view: you are
> thinking about fixing the bug, and I'm thinking about the dangers of
> some unintended consequences of the fix destabilizing Emacs 27.2's
> version of Calc.  By their very nature, unintended consequences are
> unknown to you and to me, so asking for any specific details is not
> useful.

Sorry about the misunderstanding -- no malice intended. Version history indicates that you were the one bringing Calc into the Emacs tree and did quite some work on it at the time, so it would be daft to assume that you didn't have good knowledge of the code. In other words, there may very well be something you know about it that I could learn.

However, I understand that you have made up your mind. Sorry about wasting your time.

(Moving Calc to ELPA would probably be beneficial to everyone, but given the inevitable opposition to such a move, nothing I would propose seriously.)

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Mattias Engdegård <mattiase@acm.org>
> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:51:31 +0200
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> 14 aug. 2020 kl. 08.02 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>:
> 
> > We are assessing this from two very different points of view: you are
> > thinking about fixing the bug, and I'm thinking about the dangers of
> > some unintended consequences of the fix destabilizing Emacs 27.2's
> > version of Calc.  By their very nature, unintended consequences are
> > unknown to you and to me, so asking for any specific details is not
> > useful.
> 
> Sorry about the misunderstanding -- no malice intended. Version history indicates that you were the one bringing Calc into the Emacs tree and did quite some work on it at the time, so it would be daft to assume that you didn't have good knowledge of the code. In other words, there may very well be something you know about it that I could learn.

I actually didn't consider the code at all in this case, I tried to
approach the issue from the POV of risk management.

> However, I understand that you have made up your mind.

If you can look at the issue from my POV, and provide arguments
relevant to the risks of back-porting these changes, I'd appreciate
that very much, as that would allow me to have a second opinion.  What
bothers me is the risk of having the fix uncover as yet unknown
problems in the callers of the function that was fixed.  Do you have
any thoughts about that?  For example, if the callers are already
broken when the fixed function misbehaved (are they?), that would be a
strong argument to cherry-pick the changes, because they cannot
possibly break what is already broken.

IOW, I'm trying to weight the advantages of fixing a problem against
the potential dangers and risks, especially the unknown ones.  Any
help in this decision-making will be appreciated.

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Mattias Engdegård]

14 aug. 2020 kl. 15.28 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>:

> I actually didn't consider the code at all in this case, I tried to
> approach the issue from the POV of risk management.

I understand what you mean, but it is not very different from what a maintainer fixing a bug does; assessing consequences and risks is part of the job.

> What bothers me is the risk of having the fix uncover as yet unknown
> problems in the callers of the function that was fixed.  Do you have
> any thoughts about that?  For example, if the callers are already
> broken when the fixed function misbehaved (are they?), that would be a
> strong argument to cherry-pick the changes, because they cannot
> possibly break what is already broken.

Well, there is no indication that callers of calcFunc-gcd are of particularly low quality. Solid tests would have helped, of course: were Calc written today we would have insisted on a very different degree of test coverage, but that was not the standard coding practice at the time. Without spending the time to build a full test suite for the considerable amount of functionality of Calc, the best we can do is to fix bugs using careful analysis and good habits and add well-targeted tests for the flaw and nearby code without succumbing to exponential explosion. We then sit back and wait until we believe time has tested it.

On the other hand, Calc is fairly easy to validate in the respect that it's often just a matter of doing what is mathematically correct and things will sort themselves out. Anything going wrong after fixing one part was therefore almost by definition already broken. It was not quite what you meant, but perhaps it gives a partial answer to your question.

That said, none of the bug fixes mentioned were of high importance. The way Emacs development works, it's likely better to encourage users to build and use Emacs master rather than back-porting anything to a stable branch.

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[Michael Albinus]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

Hi Eli,

>> Does this mean the emacs-27 branch is reopened for patches?
>
> Yes, but please only install bugfixes which are either safe enough for
> the release branch, or very urgent, or fix regressions introduced by
> Emacs 26 or 27.1.  Other changes should go to master.

All these changes are collected for being included into Emacs 27.2. These
are almost bugs reported via debbugs, or on the Tramp ML. Changes which
are not safe for Emacs 27.2, and all new Tramp features, do not belong
to this patch set.

These changes are already included in the master branch, so we know a
little bit about their stability. And they are also propagated via GNU
ELPA; people who have reported bugs could check the solution.

> Thanks.

Best regards, Michael.

Re: Emacs 27.1 released

[phillip.lord]

Binaries for Windows have been placed on alpha.

https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/emacs-27/

Once a few people have confirmed that they are working okay, I will 
promote them to main.

Phil


On 2020-08-11 00:00, Nicolas Petton wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Version 27.1 of the Emacs text editor is now available.
> 
> For more information on Emacs, see:
>   https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs
> 
> You can retrieve the source from your nearest GNU mirror by using one
> of the following links:
>   https://ftpmirror.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.xz
>   https://ftpmirror.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.gz
> 
> You can get the PGP signatures at
>   https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.xz.sig
>   https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.gz.sig
> 
> The tarball is signed with the following GPG key, which can be found on
> public PGP key servers:
> 
>   D405AA2C862C54F17EEE6BE0E8BCD7866AFCF978
> 
> To retrieve the key from a PGP key server, evaluate
> 
>   gpg --keyserver hkp://keys.gnupg.net --recv-keys
> D405AA2C862C54F17EEE6BE0E8BCD7866AFCF978
> 
> You can choose a mirror explicitly from the list at:
>   https://www.gnu.org/prep/ftp.html
> 
> Mirrors may take some time to update; the main GNU ftp server is at:
>   https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/
> 
> Emacs 27.1 has a wide variety of new features, including:
> 
>   - Built-in support for arbitrary-size integers
>   - Text shaping with HarfBuzz
>   - Native support for JSON parsing
>   - Better support for Cairo drawing
>   - Portable dumping used instead of unexec
>   - Support for XDG conventions for init files
>   - Additional early-init initialization file
>   - Lexical-binding is used by default
>   - Built-in support for tab bar and tab-line
>   - Support for resizing and rotating of images without ImageMagick
> 
> There are many more changes; for a summary see the etc/NEWS file, which
> you can view from Emacs with `C-h n'.
> 
> For the complete list of changes and the people who made them, see the
> various ChangeLog files in the source distribution.  For a summary of
> all the people who have contributed to Emacs, see the etc/AUTHORS file.
> 
> The online manuals and website will be updated shortly.
> 
> Printed copies of the Emacs manual are available for purchase from the
> Free Software Foundation's online store at:
> https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/
> 
> Regards,
> Nico

Emacs 27.1 Windows Binaries -- testing wanted

[phillip.lord]

Just to follow up on this, I have put windows binaries for Emacs 27.1 
onto alpha. I am hoping for someone to install and try them before I 
promote to the main release site. I don't use windows myself and can do 
no more than cursory "does it launch" testing.

If anyone has used them, can you respond to this message!

Phil



On 2020-08-12 13:01, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk wrote:
> Binaries for Windows have been placed on alpha.
> 
> https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/emacs-27/
> 
> Once a few people have confirmed that they are working okay, I will
> promote them to main.
> 
> Phil
> 
> 
> On 2020-08-11 00:00, Nicolas Petton wrote:
>> Hi!
>> 
>> Version 27.1 of the Emacs text editor is now available.
>> 
>> For more information on Emacs, see:
>>   https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs
>> 
>> You can retrieve the source from your nearest GNU mirror by using one
>> of the following links:
>>   https://ftpmirror.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.xz
>>   https://ftpmirror.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.gz
>> 
>> You can get the PGP signatures at
>>   https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.xz.sig
>>   https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.gz.sig
>> 
>> The tarball is signed with the following GPG key, which can be found 
>> on
>> public PGP key servers:
>> 
>>   D405AA2C862C54F17EEE6BE0E8BCD7866AFCF978
>> 
>> To retrieve the key from a PGP key server, evaluate
>> 
>>   gpg --keyserver hkp://keys.gnupg.net --recv-keys
>> D405AA2C862C54F17EEE6BE0E8BCD7866AFCF978
>> 
>> You can choose a mirror explicitly from the list at:
>>   https://www.gnu.org/prep/ftp.html
>> 
>> Mirrors may take some time to update; the main GNU ftp server is at:
>>   https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/
>> 
>> Emacs 27.1 has a wide variety of new features, including:
>> 
>>   - Built-in support for arbitrary-size integers
>>   - Text shaping with HarfBuzz
>>   - Native support for JSON parsing
>>   - Better support for Cairo drawing
>>   - Portable dumping used instead of unexec
>>   - Support for XDG conventions for init files
>>   - Additional early-init initialization file
>>   - Lexical-binding is used by default
>>   - Built-in support for tab bar and tab-line
>>   - Support for resizing and rotating of images without ImageMagick
>> 
>> There are many more changes; for a summary see the etc/NEWS file, 
>> which
>> you can view from Emacs with `C-h n'.
>> 
>> For the complete list of changes and the people who made them, see the
>> various ChangeLog files in the source distribution.  For a summary of
>> all the people who have contributed to Emacs, see the etc/AUTHORS 
>> file.
>> 
>> The online manuals and website will be updated shortly.
>> 
>> Printed copies of the Emacs manual are available for purchase from the
>> Free Software Foundation's online store at:
>> https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Nico

Re: Emacs 27.1 Windows Binaries -- testing wanted

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 18:49:03 +0100
> From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk
> 
> Just to follow up on this, I have put windows binaries for Emacs 27.1 
> onto alpha. I am hoping for someone to install and try them before I 
> promote to the main release site. I don't use windows myself and can do 
> no more than cursory "does it launch" testing.
> 
> If anyone has used them, can you respond to this message!

Somebody did, see bug#42844.

Thanks.

Re: Emacs 27.1 Windows Binaries -- testing wanted

[Stephen Leake]

phillip.lord@russet.org.uk writes:

> Just to follow up on this, I have put windows binaries for Emacs 27.1
> onto alpha. I am hoping for someone to install and try them before I 
> promote to the main release site. I don't use windows myself and can
> do no more than cursory "does it launch" testing.
>
> If anyone has used them, can you respond to this message!

I used the 64 bit installer; seems to work, I'm using it to reply to
this message.


-- 
-- Stephe

Re: Emacs 27.1 Windows Binaries -- testing wanted

[Alan Third]

On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 06:49:03PM +0100, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk wrote:
> 
> Just to follow up on this, I have put windows binaries for Emacs 27.1 onto
> alpha. I am hoping for someone to install and try them before I promote to
> the main release site. I don't use windows myself and can do no more than
> cursory "does it launch" testing.
> 
> If anyone has used them, can you respond to this message!

I installed the 64 bit zip version on my work PC on Friday. I haven't
done much real work with it, but it was certainly fine for what I was
doing.
-- 
Alan Third

Re: Emacs 27.1 Windows Binaries -- testing wanted

[Sivaram Neelakantan]

On Sat, Aug 15 2020,phillip.lord@russet.org.uk nil wrote:

> Just to follow up on this, I have put windows binaries for Emacs 27.1
> onto alpha. I am hoping for someone to install and try them before I 
> promote to the main release site. I don't use windows myself and can do
> no more than cursory "does it launch" testing.
>
> If anyone has used them, can you respond to this message!
>
> Phil
>
>
>

[snipped 57 lines]

Seems to work so far without any issues.  That is, if you see this
message.  And thanks for the binaries.

sivaram
-- 

Re:Emacs 27.1 Windows Binaries -- testing wanted

[范凯]

I downloaded the 64bit installer, and it works for me without any problem.<br/><br/>(version)<br/>"GNU Emacs 27.1 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32)<br/> of 2020-08-12"<br/><br/>Thanks,<br/>Kai
At 2020-08-16 01:49:03, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk wrote:
>
>Just to follow up on this, I have put windows binaries for Emacs 27.1 
>onto alpha. I am hoping for someone to install and try them before I 
>promote to the main release site. I don't use windows myself and can do 
>no more than cursory "does it launch" testing.
>
>If anyone has used them, can you respond to this message!
>
>Phil
>
>
>
>On 2020-08-12 13:01, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk wrote:
>> Binaries for Windows have been placed on alpha.
>> 
>> https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/pretest/windows/emacs-27/
>> 
>> Once a few people have confirmed that they are working okay, I will
>> promote them to main.
>> 
>> Phil
>> 
>> 
>> On 2020-08-11 00:00, Nicolas Petton wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>> 
>>> Version 27.1 of the Emacs text editor is now available.
>>> 
>>> For more information on Emacs, see:
>>>   https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs
>>> 
>>> You can retrieve the source from your nearest GNU mirror by using one
>>> of the following links:
>>>   https://ftpmirror.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.xz
>>>   https://ftpmirror.gnu.org/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.gz
>>> 
>>> You can get the PGP signatures at
>>>   https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.xz.sig
>>>   https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-27.1.tar.gz.sig
>>> 
>>> The tarball is signed with the following GPG key, which can be found 
>>> on
>>> public PGP key servers:
>>> 
>>>   D405AA2C862C54F17EEE6BE0E8BCD7866AFCF978
>>> 
>>> To retrieve the key from a PGP key server, evaluate
>>> 
>>>   gpg --keyserver hkp://keys.gnupg.net --recv-keys
>>> D405AA2C862C54F17EEE6BE0E8BCD7866AFCF978
>>> 
>>> You can choose a mirror explicitly from the list at:
>>>   https://www.gnu.org/prep/ftp.html
>>> 
>>> Mirrors may take some time to update; the main GNU ftp server is at:
>>>   https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/
>>> 
>>> Emacs 27.1 has a wide variety of new features, including:
>>> 
>>>   - Built-in support for arbitrary-size integers
>>>   - Text shaping with HarfBuzz
>>>   - Native support for JSON parsing
>>>   - Better support for Cairo drawing
>>>   - Portable dumping used instead of unexec
>>>   - Support for XDG conventions for init files
>>>   - Additional early-init initialization file
>>>   - Lexical-binding is used by default
>>>   - Built-in support for tab bar and tab-line
>>>   - Support for resizing and rotating of images without ImageMagick
>>> 
>>> There are many more changes; for a summary see the etc/NEWS file, 
>>> which
>>> you can view from Emacs with `C-h n'.
>>> 
>>> For the complete list of changes and the people who made them, see the
>>> various ChangeLog files in the source distribution.  For a summary of
>>> all the people who have contributed to Emacs, see the etc/AUTHORS 
>>> file.
>>> 
>>> The online manuals and website will be updated shortly.
>>> 
>>> Printed copies of the Emacs manual are available for purchase from the
>>> Free Software Foundation's online store at:
>>> https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Nico

Re: Emacs 27.1 Windows Binaries -- testing wanted

[Tak Kunihiro]

I downloaded emacs-27.1-x86_64.zip and it is good for a full day.
Thank you for the binary creation.