From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stepping Back: A Wealth Of Completion systems Re: [ELPA] New package: vertico Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 18:10:37 +0200 Message-ID: <87ft025b42.fsf@posteo.net> References: <9c9af088-580f-9fb1-4d79-237a74ce605c@inventati.org> <874kgkxxs0.fsf@posteo.net> <3ec7e2e58a100426a22e@heytings.org> <877dleb2px.fsf@posteo.net> <3ec7e2e58a3f78988f11@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9665"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 07 18:11:57 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lUAma-0002Lj-OV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 18:11:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51258 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUAmZ-0001Hi-R0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 12:11:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48784) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUAlh-0000l8-J3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 12:11:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:39511) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUAle-0006Z5-9c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 12:11:00 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DBA5240111 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 18:10:52 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1617811852; bh=RJkYREO/OJO1+ueODw7zmLJEYVNDFFxEjvrhCrrWe3A=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=ABtMMySL60NLmQqQjg3jirddroHpqeG6enOOfeo6KjFbagBF9Os5DUdG6fVXU1ziT R142LMdkgW96/EIAOST2oDXtN/eRz9JZfrF8IxWA0ydRmn3eBx/N8HU5yMUvJjo8BV BFMqb/ackRwbqvz6IgkZoAIVZF0G2CHndxbTKKW6bXuC6mDucc0uwGIGf0SBCDz8bN Ms9RFT40ep2u0keSjpuEzHQXQ6/J0Ye4whznXxKSYrJT7vUKLr+zQR9d8LTCkHU7MF rHqayTyOFqvGK8zdKbudFemQwiLtgPPt62mo2mK7fHOOhuqj8O2S+3bxK1soW6CUDl qko7d4YZvlT2Q== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4FFqB5593sz9rxh; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 18:10:37 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <3ec7e2e58a3f78988f11@heytings.org> (Gregory Heytings's message of "Wed, 07 Apr 2021 15:24:11 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267529 Archived-At: Gregory Heytings writes: >>> I've been thinking about this, and I'm not sure I understand what >>> the real difference between "completing" and "selecting" is. Do I >>> understand correctly that the difference is between, for example, >>> expanding command names (completing), and choosing an emoji in a >>> list (selecting)? >> >> I think the main difference is in the UI. The default completion UI >> for Emacs will expand text in-place. M-x tdoe becomes >> toggle-debug-on-error, with the initials style. This appears to make >> sense for well structured text, such as commands or files. >> >> Selection are probably situations where you want more visual >> feedback, and it would make sense to present a list/tree by >> default. I don't think that this has to be strictly about text. >> >> Generally speaking, you can complete the textual representation of >> anything or select the object themselves. I don't think that either >> is always better, but I think we can do better than selecting >> textual representations. >> > > Okay, I think I understand your viewpoint (a bit) better now. But: > > 1. It seems to me that the UI you have in mind is closer to > 'transient' than to 'completing-read'. Perhaps, but my understanding of transient is that it tries to be a better C-u. > 2. That UI already exists to some extent in Emacs, for example dired, > imenu (either in the menu bar or bound to a mouse event), ibuffer, the > speedbar, ... How is this a "but"? > 3. Such a UI probably wouln't fit in the (by definition) limited space > of a minibuffer. I think so, I don't think that it should have to. -- Philip K.