From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Joost Kremers Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Mutating existing persistent data Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2021 23:13:58 +0100 Message-ID: <87fsr4xc05.fsf@fastmail.fm> References: <87tufmjyai.fsf@gnus.org> <875ys2lyt0.fsf@yahoo.com> <87wnkhlxb9.fsf@yahoo.com> <2FD7D920-D92C-480B-B2AC-91A17F0397C4@mit.edu> <87zgpdi0rk.fsf@gnus.org> <83h7bkzg01.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtlcfaga.fsf@gnus.org> <83ilw0xj6o.fsf@gnu.org> <87v900duuc.fsf@gnus.org> <877dcg2hi8.fsf@fastmail.fm> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8006"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.6.9; emacs 28.0.90 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 07 23:55:44 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mujN9-0001qH-7I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2021 23:55:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50088 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mujN7-0002Te-GW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2021 17:55:41 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42960) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mujLQ-0001la-SO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2021 17:53:56 -0500 Original-Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.27]:37841) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mujLL-0001cZ-6J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2021 17:53:56 -0500 Original-Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FC4F5C0B5C; Tue, 7 Dec 2021 17:53:50 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 07 Dec 2021 17:53:50 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= references:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh= +PMFECxQOFz1kdWwyLI+ca3ej1hkKti+OqI7pkQY/XE=; b=hkPt/a1IJargBb6d x5kHD84DlEOhXTKPEO13XH+TAWTP/H75lSe3eXCbZeDD8SS9B0PVPq2DdnEr3lnt E1J4Q4pJrsjEDwkXq6lwRNNEScoS2mkWToBpMcG9sliBjE3W2WT7bqPESXRUYS1R bbnkXSzJfuvwSu/hkHz+RI6r+IC9h4u2C3oxuuiQT2Ru6twY4atrbxJfSoNfMkxr qEBwtBHWSXUhoPgHL+LF4uQQzzgFF5MYKq9HhKY+kX97mh+FHuYbZ2HFKDjynNrF dUfyJoQTtlI35uuakhYZRq9Jbvj7rGWFEeHyHnxJ+12Pi7B2QbJa6TpV9MZqA6o0 grcxGw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=+PMFECxQOFz1kdWwyLI+ca3ej1hkKti+OqI7pkQY/ XE=; b=lYiMw4TMgbEsRyTq72FzazeQz/7jkRe25Il5tDUAwD2Tk8vHuv2A3F5Ji tDT2w1zyhM1Sh8Ci1SiWcyJESQW0lF6eWv/yCBNzWyyhlSGXVZ71abRN2DGrWvRO 8KaYcCrwu78PH+aT9+lM7pYoGIHQKLa2Kmxj6ZslP2rFZQ/annmVqdxj7zTZBVJ2 AlPpGxETrkiyxbupsI+vHDGtOyG9+XrKF4cK8DLB3Pn1gsCZpgmUDJIihNXwKEy9 odd1jf2KN60jZRcIhjeQvFBvwz4+PDtfi1VwCHEOQtlFbABeX1FmYMEiN9BMxAFC LnyA9BbWlOvOzAcAalZ7PSZqJfYtA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvuddrjeeigddtfecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpehffgfhvffuffgjkfggtgfgsehtqhertddtreejnecuhfhrohhmpeflohhoshht ucfmrhgvmhgvrhhsuceojhhoohhsthhkrhgvmhgvrhhssehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhmqe enucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedvvdfggefhtdeihfevvddvtdejhfeljeevledtleffvefh ieejkefhuddtffegfeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrih hlfhhrohhmpehjohhoshhtkhhrvghmvghrshesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmh X-ME-Proxy: Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 7 Dec 2021 17:53:49 -0500 (EST) In-reply-to: <877dcg2hi8.fsf@fastmail.fm> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.27; envelope-from=joostkremers@fastmail.fm; helo=out3-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:281290 Archived-At: On Tue, Dec 07 2021, Joost Kremers wrote: > On Tue, Dec 07 2021, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: >> Uhm... anybody else got any ideas for a word for a variable that has a >> value that survives an Emacs shutdown? > > persist-defvar? > > Oh, wait, that already exists... =F0=9F=98=B2 (Well, OK, it's on GNU ELPA= , but still.) > > I noticed you hadn't listed "permanent" yet, or "durable". > > But I do think 'persistent' is the usual term to describe this sort of th= ing, so > personally I'd find a way to use it. Actually, what I wanted to add: If this is to be a persistent storage mecha= nism for Emacs, I do think there should be an automatic fall-back option for peo= ple that can't or don't want to use sqlite3, e.g., because they prefer their persistent storage to be in plain text. Even more so if this persistent sto= rage is going to be used by 2nd and 3rd party packages (which I assume is the intention). You don't want to leave unsuspecting users hanging when they in= stall some package that doesn't work as advertised because it uses a persistent s= torage mechanism that doesn't work on the user's installation. OTOH if no such fall-back is planned, it would IMHO be better to reflect th= at in the name of the library and its functions. So preferably `sqlite-defvar` ra= ther than `persistent-defvar` or something. That would stand a better chance of alerting package authors to the fact that they cannot count on this functionality being available on every Emacs install. Just my =E2=82=AC0.02, of course. --=20 Joost Kremers Life has its moments