From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: 10 problems with Elisp, part 10 (was: Re: Emacs website, Lisp, and other) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:34:41 +0200 Message-ID: <87frrg6b1q.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25180"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:KgYKzTC53IGUU2hmpBut+pLZrf0= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 07 12:51:27 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sbeGM-0006P5-Uh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 12:51:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbeFh-0003y1-KN; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 06:50:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbbC7-00086E-TZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 03:34:51 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbbC6-0000Z5-0b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 03:34:51 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sbbC4-0004Ux-CQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:34:48 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 06:50:37 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322485 Archived-At: Abraham S.A.H." via "Emacs development discussions. wrote: >> Moving point around > > I thought it's the strengh point of Emacs. When programming, half the time is moving around in the buffer instead of solving the actual problem. Not only that, moving around in the buffer is difficult and error-prone as you don't know how it will look at the point of code execution, and also moving around and of course especially _editing_ it inside it changes it, so it is a crazy situation to encourage. > Why "Everything being a buffer" is bad? Because one would like to separate data, data retrieval, data processing, and how data is displayed. This is possible to do in Elisp but people have not payed attention to it which is why many program including such in core Emacs are very long programs with a lot of moving around buffers endlessly and this code is all intermixed with everything else. Very ugly, boring to write, difficult to read, error-prone to maintain. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal