From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Reconsider make-backup-files default value Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2024 10:41:04 +0800 Message-ID: <87frpw2wn3.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <86o74ndcxy.fsf@gnu.org> <87o74l2iyk.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38910"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , James Ipswich , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 19 04:42:01 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sr77H-0009u7-Om for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2024 04:41:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sr76c-0008Mk-Nj; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 22:41:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sr76b-0008MU-K7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 22:41:17 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic314-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.189.148]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sr76Z-0002ej-Ea for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 22:41:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1726713673; bh=eCX+nF5hVvTsz8MZXE0ipyZvfN/C6U1drknVu4lU8qM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=nDWs+dSL1MqRnpME9E218KZC2mKFvqxpFGMrzglorkTEVWlMlAfUQCXXIGOAwEg0X48ECM9hcaHjg8YBlq5VNku6dcuFPEbjOXqdjR1zsP/X2BIYI3O48TSgup1H+imoLN5MBSQvC0xSRr72H4OVPMx00iCkjMg6UkYausBtL7hpOF5ynjLtWrh9KFbcM2Eh6TxpfMOiywJLMV47MEaGQmezj2rhZC+tdSleijMZjvacJP6GEj9c/6ozofPE/M+ScvGPcxVf+Jsm1h22wc7QUzyVxuz3mczpr4A2bV0nRiie6fA3T35onreRUR+7EvoEK3zEzpQ5qBh3EWN5fZjoVw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1726713673; bh=91+TXdRVduuVi9VmrnOKfwdNuWuW1onpTkwsARF3zYL=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=G5TM4EYSz5blFpMA00qgVTQa5viB3JBCow+lBcA2jABuWoLywcX2xFMhuKy4zOnbPPbHba3D0vomeRSVbP3QEQQnPiIwf1rBpGxC48TlU2MUVvStwhI9JU1uHEEVoSR6oO+vjD/V24qSiDtAAvpH+aJjv5wME6eXtLiGG/WJhn8FztPhZEXEuG4zs+CqGxol7JRAzo0ci2YvuY+VTA6jzfvM8bSsjavanS3UWESBe/72ZdZxAQxKpJkhKwn8i52qJ5cqUzdoiAbN5xBkfTEsP1g2v+zmfBLpubvdZDQfwzpRn/oxHeMe5s1X1H09QPivG47cj8hGbACP4h9FNR/W2Q== X-YMail-OSG: 2RmFdGMVM1mrj5yRABZTMbfZCWTKgMeg.pqBI7XQdyuGI5gauXAGW65GHkiELam Wz91Cq4CRdppdwLECzxPq5q6jYshEA4s60C4MM9tlIwRXS2fuxMBcoKJFHoDyXbaYJG28Ad8Z0T6 2q6VbiWt0P0ASL87.v0uUE2zoQHyCQ3QBD7zVzrF1Gt.rFwFKxI5GvWyP0OaZY4zYpib06FD3l7M HJjopFH_a7Xvg7n_0PmGvf0T_J484ZX6Je6UwFs6.KTWRiUg8gGK08cIusCTXHzgJJ5nDL2XZpJK OYbhTFTNV6rDdOxJEHQah7iTSIfg7FIOnEXJ6btL5uNGGQOZJAql0UPh.zNEQEyr0G9_fgzPLsdf h_FEOwCHkMnxe.YUPl4GduE3nBTf0Z7XL62eGE0RphyVVBjm6oii1tYWlDpsduaa_kLXzrdOvU1A 04PajSQQvWtGUdf_I3zXlwCe8LQ3gSCoEbcidjY.dLxPolTV_nz8h3UG1bVK_5iJHVNVX.c3iA82 3TLLnVZtYdIY4dGf8gWyHtMtatnnZKmnxvj1hmMHzijGV3BljvKioYjL1kZVyfgZXWsEPm7bpgzt EsIo841wlQUiRlzfsAqNky3dtpd.SWpeO.tWwSOgVWDKC2_hTWaOMyLX9WHgyKBqeuCFNMbcm3Z2 xHpbUZ2Zf8zDbjf7TiqM__0bDrow0kO1bBhH6T7Hbl2VURu3vwBH8AwHK0akGTGoOvryeuTP05QB 1Xrkyxwl4z0qcd0lO62RrbnE1tK3vm4YE3fhw62rvjLOJ9efvABFOBPgQNmGjNmx3ir22AVWFIIV X8oZNH2tmR2WoTwd9g.q.iDKJFaOywWy2dD2XAgUNq X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: ffdb25de-42e9-4cb1-bfb6-dfb679c22062 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic314.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Sep 2024 02:41:13 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-fc85cddf6-lbhm5 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID cd7a1e574f9dfc9184c34ffbcfbfd1f1; Thu, 19 Sep 2024 02:41:10 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 18 Sep 2024 23:31:07 +0000") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22645 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.189.148; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic314-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.047, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:323741 Archived-At: Stefan Kangas writes: > Po Lu writes: > >> To be quite honest, I don't understand why the default state of backup >> files has arisen for "deep philosophical" debate. > > It's because no other text editor does it by default, and many users > consider them as useless clutter. I think it's expected that this > question will come up every now and then, as long as its the default. The reason the "other text editors" can make ends met without backup files is that they are designed for MS-Windows, which supports file version numbers. Decent text editors always produce backup files (if not in the same directory), and only if the time comes when users of Unix systems can easily restore previous versions of a file from a Properties dialog will Emacs backup files actually become redundant. As here, https://winaero.com/restore-previous-versions-windows-10/ > FWIW, I find them quite useless. I have put them in a separate > directory for 20+ years, and have never had to consult that directory. > In some cases, I wished I had disabled them, because some data I thought > I had deleted was kept (the "passwords.txt" case). YMMV. > > That said, I have no strong opinion about changing the default. Neither > choice is obviously better (on or off). It is this reasoning which I cannot understand. It is always better to be cautious, especially in this age of 500GB+ disk drives.