From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Shutko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Fwd: [arch-users] Re: Gud lord!] Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 22:05:05 -0500 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <87el256zha.fsf@wesley.springies.com> References: <1055034587.1439.121.camel@lan1> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1055044208 18993 80.91.224.249 (8 Jun 2003 03:50:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 03:50:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 08 05:50:03 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19OrBz-0004w8-00 for ; Sun, 08 Jun 2003 05:50:03 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19OrVK-0007An-00 for ; Sun, 08 Jun 2003 06:10:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19OrEL-0006j0-UF for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 23:52:29 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19OrDd-0006Fw-Du for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 23:51:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19OrDZ-00063H-PK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 23:51:42 -0400 Original-Received: from remt28.cluster1.charter.net ([209.225.8.38]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19OrDV-0005qo-Ud for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 23:51:38 -0400 Original-Received: from [24.171.116.220] (HELO wesley.springies.com) by remt28.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 51445692; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 23:51:35 -0400 Original-Received: from ats by wesley.springies.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19OrDR-0001Yl-00; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 22:51:34 -0500 Original-To: Robert Anderson In-Reply-To: <1055034587.1439.121.camel@lan1> (Robert Anderson's message of "07 Jun 2003 18:09:46 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:14907 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:14907 Robert Anderson writes: > They are defined by regexps. I don't think regexps can reasonably be > considered "murky." Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems. - Jamie Zawinski[1] > I don't see how you can say that it is not stable. The core of the > system has been stable for a long time. I don't see how performance > improvements can be considered "instability." Any changes the system go through will have to be tracked by someone. If the existing CVS crew were to admin arch as well, they'd be even more overworked. Otherwise, Emacs developers would have to learn everything about arch, at the cost of doing Emacs development. (And it would be nice to get a release out sometime.) This change will also impact all of the Emacs developers, taking time away from any of their development. Any time the software needs to get upgraded, or file formats get changed, or the user-defined naming conventions turn out to be ill-advised and need to be changed, productivity on all levels will be hurt. > The only thing that needs to be worked out about those other things > is users' understanding of them. Sure... and that takes time and effort that could be spent stabilizing Emacs so that a release with new features can get out. And since arch is immature, it means that all the best practices have yet to be figured out. Why force that on Emacs developers? Let other people figure out things so that Emacs can tread in their footsteps and not waste too much time to the transition. No matter how mature arch is, or how well-documented the transition steps may be (like importing the multiple active branches currently under development in a sane way) it would still take work and cause a bunch of disruption. And for the ability to rename files[2] it's certainly not worth it. For the rest of the features, it may be worth it... or maybe svn would be better[3], or maybe something else. But that decision can wait. Footnotes: [1] http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=33F0C496.370D7C45%40netscape.com [2] Yes, that's where you brought this up. [3] which _does_ offer a CVS->SVN conversion tool.... -- Alan Shutko - I am the rocks. Looking for a developer in St. Louis? http://web.springies.com/~ats/ No two equals are the same