From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: obsolete comment in tool-bar.el Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:40:55 -0400 Message-ID: <87ek9sd8i7.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> References: <200507071915.j67JFZT29961@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200507090235.j692ZER04883@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200507110321.j6B3LgG09526@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <85y88dfcqw.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <200507130302.j6D32qE05640@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200507140208.j6E28tr08794@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200507141830.j6EIU5r11167@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <878y08k857.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <200507151353.j6FDrMf12755@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200507160204.j6G24XE13583@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200507190259.j6J2xmf16875@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <874qaqg8w0.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <200507200405.j6 NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1121925397 25163 80.91.229.2 (21 Jul 2005 05:56:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 05:56:37 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 21 07:56:36 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DvU2V-0006fq-Vg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 07:56:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DvU4Z-0000V4-Mi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:58:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DvTzj-0008KS-J6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:53:21 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DvTzK-0008If-Ld for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:53:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DvTzC-0008E0-Dh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:52:49 -0400 Original-Received: from [209.226.175.34] (helo=tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DvTxI-0004MV-87; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:50:48 -0400 Original-Received: from alfajor ([67.71.33.147]) by tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20050721054055.OQQI25800.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@alfajor>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:40:55 -0400 Original-Received: by alfajor (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4ABFDD7571; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:40:55 -0400 (EDT) Original-To: Luc Teirlinck In-Reply-To: <200507200405.j6K45SZ18998@raven.dms.auburn.edu> (Luc Teirlinck's message of "Tue, 19 Jul 2005 23:05:28 -0500 (CDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:41102 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:41102 > Loading a file should change Emacs's state as little as possible, so the > init-value of a minor mode should *describe* (not determine) the default > state of the minor-mode (in the case where the minor-mode function is not > executed). > I understood that. However setting the mode variable to t without > enabling the mode has some very bad consequences, to the point that I > believe it could be considered an outright bug. If the mode has a > lighter, the mode line claims that the mode is enabled, whereas it is > not, confusing the user. Even though the mode variable is non-nil, > the mode is disabled, so `M-x foo-mode' should enable it. Instead, > `M-x foo-mode' is actually a no-op in this situation, which is also > very confusing to the user. No, you did not understand, please re-read. Think about the difference between describing and determining. If without running the minor-mode function its state is inactive, then the init-state has to be nil. The init-state should only ever be t if the mode is active even without having ever run the minor-mode function. Stefan