From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sam Steingold Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: t and nil in pure memory? Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:48:45 -0500 Organization: disorganization Message-ID: <87einrxdf6.fsf@gnu.org> References: <200911112023.nABKNrH6023933@godzilla.ics.uci.edu> <87pr7oxieq.fsf@freebits.de> <200911130524.nAD5O5uu009102@godzilla.ics.uci.edu> <87my2nsfh3.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <877htqswq0.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87iqd5sq6x.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Reply-To: sds@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1258872562 25378 80.91.229.12 (22 Nov 2009 06:49:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:49:22 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 22 07:49:15 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NC6G1-0007jl-Kt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:49:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48259 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NC6G0-0008Kr-Mj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:49:12 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NC6Fq-0008IP-Od for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:49:02 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NC6Fl-0008Gj-4h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:49:01 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=34648 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NC6Fk-0008GY-UQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:48:56 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:50526) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NC6Fk-0000gA-F3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:48:56 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1NC6Fh-0007fm-MU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:48:53 +0100 Original-Received: from ool-182f80f7.dyn.optonline.net ([24.47.128.247]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:48:53 +0100 Original-Received: from sds by ool-182f80f7.dyn.optonline.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:48:53 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 38 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ool-182f80f7.dyn.optonline.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) Mail-Copies-To: never X-Attribution: Sam X-Disclaimer: You should not expect anyone to agree with me. Cancel-Lock: sha1:ap1DSyBBS4c1UQFh/yP+QrT6rDc= X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117487 Archived-At: > * Chong Yidong [2009-11-20 00:47:18 -0500]: > > FWIW, in CLISP and CMUCL (unintern nil) and (unintern t) are no-ops > returning nil. Presumably the other CL implementations do likewise. This is not true about CLISP (and presumably other CL implementations). [1]> (unintern cl:t) NIL This is indeed a noop because the default package is CL-USER and T lived in CL. [2]> (unintern cl:t :cl) ** - Continuable Error UNINTERN(T): # is locked If you continue (by typing 'continue'): Ignore the lock and proceed The following restarts are also available: ABORT :R1 Abort main loop Break 1 [3]> continue #:T USER[4]> (find-symbol "T" "CL") NIL ; NIL i.e., it IS possible to remove the T symbol (with all the trouble this entails). As a CLISP maintainer, I don't think T & NIL are special enough. We lock entire packages. Please see . -- Sam Steingold (http://sds.podval.org/) on Ubuntu 9.04 (jaunty) http://iris.org.il http://camera.org http://jihadwatch.org http://pmw.org.il http://openvotingconsortium.org http://ffii.org http://mideasttruth.com Computers are like air conditioners: they don't work with open windows!