From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs terminology (not again!?) [was: Apologia for bzr] Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 18:42:19 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87eh4hkq6c.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <877gact76s.fsf@gnu.org> <34c8c13b-c5c6-4e5a-9248-b09d5d1936da@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389289370 25567 80.91.229.3 (9 Jan 2014 17:42:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:42:50 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 09 18:42:55 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W1Jd4-00063U-1K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 18:42:50 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53331 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1Jd3-00088g-FP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 12:42:49 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42594) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1Jct-0007uj-PP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 12:42:44 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1Jco-0002HE-Lk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 12:42:39 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:52424) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1Jco-0002H5-FF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 12:42:34 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W1Jcl-0005Jn-D3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 18:42:31 +0100 Original-Received: from x2f51f78.dyn.telefonica.de ([2.245.31.120]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 18:42:31 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by x2f51f78.dyn.telefonica.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 18:42:31 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 38 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: x2f51f78.dyn.telefonica.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:PFMPpmz58ebWwXEj0O5eR0J5Jps= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167950 Archived-At: Per Starbäck writes: > 2014/1/9 Drew Adams > >> > Then you are talking about another problem than I am. Functionality (and >> > attitudes) that turn away those people is indeed a problem for Emacs. >> >> Are you sure that turning away "those people" is a problem for Emacs? >> > Yes. Any attitude of "it should be hard to learn because the good > people can learn things that are hard to learn" is just > contraproductive. It's more like "it's unavoidable to provide difficulties to learning because it can do a lot, and when a lot is easily accessible, you'll have stuff getting in your hair accidentally". Musicians learn their instruments, craftsmen learn their tools. Unfretted bowed string instruments remain a favorite even though the possibilities for producing wrong notes or sounds that cannot in good conscience even be called "tones" are staggering when compared to, say, a piano. Attempts to cut down on variables the player can get wrong, like the hurdy gurdy, did not really take off. A programmer will spend most of his life interacting with an editor and texts. > Those are not comparable quotes at all. Richard wants Emacs to be > easier to learn for beginners, and I doubt he would write something > like your momma quote. A carving knife with an exploding handle is not going to be popular. But you won't be able to sell one with a blunt edge "for safety" either. Within the variables, one wants to make things as simple as possible but not simpler. -- David Kastrup