From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Further CC-mode changes Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:40:25 +0900 Message-ID: <87egvb2kye.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <53632C6F.5070903@dancol.org> <20140511211351.GC2759@acm.acm> <536FEA43.5090402@dancol.org> <20140516175226.GB3267@acm.acm> <537653A0.2070109@dancol.org> <20140518213331.GB2577@acm.acm> <20140912235948.GA4045@acm.acm> <20140913151055.GB3431@acm.acm> <87vboo2rgk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87wq93ve4p.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1410910873 25313 80.91.229.3 (16 Sep 2014 23:41:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 23:41:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 17 01:41:06 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XU2Mo-00068h-8t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 01:41:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41303 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XU2Ml-0006A1-Bs for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:40:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57882) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XU2Ma-00068w-Um for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:40:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XU2MT-0007H4-E5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:40:48 -0400 Original-Received: from shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.161]:48984) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XU2MK-0007Ej-6M; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:40:32 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24FC31C3822; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:40:26 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 16EB31A28C8; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:40:26 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <87wq93ve4p.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta34) "kale" acf1c26e3019 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.161 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:174389 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > I think it depends. "Gratuitous incompatibility" is one thing, but > "refrain from relying on fixes, useful APIs etc that exist for years > already" is another. *You* do understand the irony of that claim, don't you? But no, what it depends on is whether you use those versions or not. Two separate surveys of large (>100) corporate Emacsen populations taken in 2003 and 2007 showed that around 10% of users were using 10-year-old or older Emacsen. Even Microsoft has been taught that lesson. The trend in forward-looking projects is to "long term support" of various kinds, invariably involving multiple versions and even competing implementations, and even longer-term support is one of the things that keeps free software businesses profitable. I think it's ironic that when it comes to the XEmacs support Alan wants to provide, Glenn is all for "aggressive modernization" and devil take the hindmost, but when it comes to the same policy toward the git repo Eric wants to provide, he's the loudest of footdraggers. I think that is pretty paradigmatic of Emacs, and one of the reasons why Emacs is itself considered "unprogressive" by most programmers.