From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Metaproblem, part 3 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2014 09:41:02 +0800 Message-ID: <87egsc6xu9.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <20141203142859.24393.98673@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <20141203193110.GF12748@thyrsus.com> <20141203215426.GA15791@thyrsus.com> <87ppbzplcw.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <83iohr48kr.fsf@gnu.org> <83388u4bps.fsf@gnu.org> <87egsejkrt.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87tx19jpqz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87k3255ggb.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87bnnhox99.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417916438 27880 80.91.229.3 (7 Dec 2014 01:40:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 01:40:38 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 07 02:40:31 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxQpq-0006fB-O3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 02:40:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56165 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxQpq-000112-6b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 20:40:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:32781) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxQpU-0000yn-HL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 20:40:13 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxQpP-00062y-MN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 20:40:08 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:59215) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxQpP-00062e-Fe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 20:40:03 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxQpO-0006Vi-S4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 02:40:02 +0100 Original-Received: from 61.149.185.27 ([61.149.185.27]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 02:40:02 +0100 Original-Received: from eric by 61.149.185.27 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 02:40:02 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 47 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 61.149.185.27 User-Agent: Gnus/5.130012 (Ma Gnus v0.12) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:zX6p7A63Luc8DBTMKFkNdvpvy4o= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179229 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > Eric Abrahamsen writes: > >> "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: >> >>> Eric Abrahamsen writes: >>> >>> > It would be nice to explicitly let posters know that they can ask >>> > someone for help with implementing a feature/squashing a >>> > bug. There's lots of helpful advice here and on emacs.help, but >>> > that's not quite the same as knowing that someone has committed >>> > (to some extent) to assisting you. >>> >>> I see worries about "hostile" environment, and suggestions for making >>> things more welcoming to new contributors. I have to ask, what do >>> all you folks who are suggesting Emacs change its procedures think is >>> in it for the mentors and core developers? >> >> FWIW (not much), I have never felt any hostility here or in emacs.help, >> and I'm not complaining about anything. Possibly I haven't felt it >> because I'm coming in at such a low level that no nerves are touched -- >> I'm asking basic questions. > > See, that's your mistake. The first steps towards feeling hostility on > developer lists is to tell people that they are doing it all wrong but > they are lucky you came around to tell them. There are a lot of > variations on the theme, of course. But if you feel that a technical > mailing list as such rather than, say, an isolated person having a bad > day, act hostile, chances are that you score in that area. > >> The only reason I chimed in is because I'm one of those who would love >> to contribute more substantially, but needs guidance. For example, >> I've got the basics of an epub-editing mode in place. I'd like it to >> be a solid library, and would likely need assistance to get it there. > > Can you figure out what is missing and phrase it into questions? While > there is the phenomenon that if you are asking 10 people, you'll get 20 > answers, I think that for basic problems the Emacs list will not split > into so many different factions of "do it my way" that you'll get much > more confusing answers from the group of people reading this list than > you would get from a single tutor. Yeah, I'm not sure anything new has come out of the "mentoring" discussion besides the possibility of using a tag in subject line. There are obviously many people prepared to help mid-level programmers, and that's probably good enough.