From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2014 10:37:41 +0100 Message-ID: <87egsbn6l6.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <87mw72lyzs.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <20141205190925.GA5067@thyrsus.com> <20141206061019.GC14890@thyrsus.com> <87vblnn9cj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9x7ke4l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417946319 27991 80.91.229.3 (7 Dec 2014 09:58:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 09:58:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 07 10:58:33 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxYbo-0007qm-DF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 10:58:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57513 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxYbo-0008RV-18 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 04:58:32 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49813) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxYbk-0008Po-OI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 04:58:29 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxYbj-0003BT-QB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 04:58:28 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:44662) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxYbj-0003BP-Mz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 04:58:27 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51836 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxYbj-0004b3-5a; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 04:58:27 -0500 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E9131E05DF; Sun, 7 Dec 2014 10:37:41 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <87h9x7ke4l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Sun, 07 Dec 2014 18:23:06 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179255 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > David Kastrup writes: > > > "prettier" for an Info mode replacement it to be taken with a huuuge > > grain of salt. Emacs is an editor, its fonts, foreground, background > > are (hopefully) configured for maximum readability. > > This is a few lines of CSS. The problem is that the default HTML output of Texinfo is pretty good in that respect. It's awful in the "nice web appearance" category. Web pages and Info pages have different requirements. There are also structural differences hinging on the different kind of page layout: you'll use frames for nice navigation/webbing in a browser while using menus or keyboard shortcuts for an Info browser in order to save the screen estate for the content. My web browser is typically running on a desktop of its own, basically in landscape format, while my Emacs occupies just below half of a desktop using only 80 columns (which is about the limit one can usefully read in running text without losing orientation). So layout, geometry, and also the color model at least outside of the bulk text area are different for web browsing and Info browsing. Which is, by the way, the main problem I have with using eww for about anything: it just makes a framy wrapping mess of the 80 columns of text area I give it. -- David Kastrup