From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On language-dependent defaults for character-folding Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:21:11 +0100 Message-ID: <87egchssbs.fsf@wanadoo.es> References: <87mvr9wxqz.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87io1xwq1e.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87vb5wvzfz.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87io1wt4cc.fsf@wanadoo.es> <8737syoima.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <871t8iu277.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83d1s28kvh.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3gis7sm.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83twle71xy.fsf@gnu.org> <87io1us0te.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87bn7mnpxk.fsf@fastmail.fm> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455301327 19803 80.91.229.3 (12 Feb 2016 18:22:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 18:22:07 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 12 19:21:51 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aUILn-0004lN-7H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:21:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35200 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aUILm-0004Bz-CW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 13:21:50 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39704) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aUILY-0004BQ-Jw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 13:21:37 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aUILV-0000fF-EB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 13:21:36 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:60307) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aUILV-0000eB-6E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 13:21:33 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aUILS-0004Ww-BP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:21:30 +0100 Original-Received: from 173.red-83-43-64.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([83.43.64.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:21:30 +0100 Original-Received: from ofv by 173.red-83-43-64.dynamicip.rima-tde.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:21:30 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 19 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 173.red-83-43-64.dynamicip.rima-tde.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:OGvm5BiBCJKSEygjdUZ2NQvUVGg= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:199826 Archived-At: Joost Kremers writes: > Actually, without wanting to be pedantic, but ⟨ñ⟩ (the grapheme) *is* > just an ⟨n⟩ with a tilde, regardless of the language one is talking > about. The reason why a native speaker of Spanish considers n and ñ to > be two different letters is because they represent two different > *phonemes* of the Spanish language: /n/ vs. /ɲ/. Actually, Spaniards consider ñ to be a letter because that is what we are taught at school. That's what sets our expectations when we use text editors. > The term `letter' (as an alphabetic character) is notoriously imprecise, > which is the cause of much confusion. In Spanish, "letter" is precisely defined. We have 27 of them. `ch' and `ll' were letters in Spanish until 2010, when the Academies decided to demote them, following widespread public opinion. That will not happen to ñ anytime soon.