From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Achim Gratz Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: feature/integrated-elpa 4f6df43 15/23: README added Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2016 19:18:21 +0200 Organization: Linux Private Site Message-ID: <87eg3hsf8i.fsf@Rainer.invalid> References: <20160916203414.25203.87032@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <8660p3qd99.fsf@realize.ch> <831szrhwsr.fsf@gnu.org> <8760p12qzw.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83vax0en1u.fsf@gnu.org> <87pon5ek3q.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87twcgttjf.fsf@russet.org.uk> <86a8e7symk.fsf@realize.ch> <8737jzl4u9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8337jz8dg8.fsf@gnu.org> <83insv3tnl.fsf@gnu.org> <83d1j33qgg.fsf@gnu.org> <87wph96cto.fsf@russet.org.uk> <831szh3iq4.fsf@gnu.org> <87mvi5spl9.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83mvi51y3b.fsf@gnu.org> <87instslxu.fsf@russet.org.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476552034 27305 195.159.176.226 (15 Oct 2016 17:20:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2016 17:20:34 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 15 19:20:29 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bvScw-0003Uo-Ib for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2016 19:20:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52745 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bvScu-0004v1-Kj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2016 13:20:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50436) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bvSbx-0004t7-Fi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2016 13:19:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bvSbr-0000lJ-Ci for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2016 13:19:04 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=51798 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bvSbr-0000iY-58 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2016 13:18:59 -0400 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bvSbW-0001fV-MQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2016 19:18:38 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 42 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:rNz3rIzkDNbZGK2pK85G7wp1R5U= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208301 Archived-At: Phillip Lord writes: > And this could only work for org.el *because* org is in it's own > directory with its own autoloads file. For seq.el, for instance, it will > not work. No, some autoloads still get collected into the top-level autoloads file. The same two-layer mechanism is used by calc.el, IIRC. > IIUC, in fact it's the org-mode folks actually view this as a > significant *disadvantage* to having org-mode in core. It's only because > this is the only way to get it into the tarball that they do it. Achim, > do I have this right? Please talk to the current Org maintainers about this, I was unable to spend much time on Org during the last year or so. In any case, I don't think this should be viewed as an issue with Org, that's certain to rub someone the wrong way. My personal biew is that anything that shows up as a "built-in package" should behave just like it had been installed by package.el from the POV of a user. So, a user should be able to cleanly deactivate or upgrade each such package via package.el. > There are a few other things that package.el does, which it would be > shame to loose. It checks dependencies for instance. So, say, I > installed assess.el into Emacs core using package.el as I suggest, and > it requires a newer version of seq.el than is available, package.el will > bitch about this very early. Paackage.el has it's own limitations which unfortunately are also highlighted by Org. Some of the files that go into ELPA Org are actually generated by an upstream makefile so that the tarball that ELPA distributes can be successfully installed within those limitations. Regards, Achim. -- +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+ Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Q+, Q and microQ: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds