From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Phillip Lord Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: dash.el [was: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs] Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 17:19:39 +0100 Message-ID: <87eerqbg10.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <0c88192c-3c33-46ed-95cb-b4c6928016e3@default> <87wo5mc04t.fsf@fastmail.fm> <835zd5h6tq.fsf@gnu.org> <87o8qwc88b.fsf@russet.org.uk> <85E41CCF-8D56-4878-95CA-4ED7A6B8E40B@icloud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="28671"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.90 (gnu/linux) Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm, rms@gnu.org, pcr910303@icloud.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 11 18:22:40 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jYBCS-0007MQ-CK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 18:22:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59214 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYBCR-0001Q5-5V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:22:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51504) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYBAM-0007NY-CY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:20:30 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:38160) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYBAK-00043s-KU; Mon, 11 May 2020 12:20:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=H2pn8tANCu/JxOgsC+CQFdKooTAmO3TJZiWZRW7zmR0=; b=qC9ZQpgEJMbvjkZvAEmOmZgVo xQAALpwmCy2mkU0CaLum/i6YwmMxtgsPcBmRIUuJs8RTsCoQzY8pOA1zhc8cnZM/r+yA5Y3TQ/VSH NzoAU3DsAxigFLIe3Q2oZ8ZddDTR0n4SNDpGd9jNDilppf+eF9anHM9hrL3q6WdUNr84LcKyFKznn zlyreacWwiDgAH4OGavc9dZU1w9u2IipoHw510sNByb/Ezy8foziPT/uWvD/4mXCWGPr7Own1xTt9 Soa+Dd1Uy8Wl+7hseZTqV6rZgeCo38TMCYUeJ990jX3NMoIcO5E4v3bWgYlVn3SjpCwTset20Zk9L 9tg7XKH7A==; Original-Received: from cpc142652-benw12-2-0-cust953.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.21.43.186]:38492 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1jYB9a-0006AU-Tx; Mon, 11 May 2020 17:19:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Alfred M. Szmidt's message of "Mon, 11 May 2020 01:49:45 -0400") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received-SPF: none client-ip=78.129.138.110; envelope-from=phillip.lord@russet.org.uk; helo=cloud103.planethippo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/11 12:19:44 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249813 Archived-At: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) writes: > > 'clos-prepend' is not harder to read than 's-prepend'. > > The problem is that lots of packages use `s-prepend', rather than > `clos-prepend'. There are too many packages that are blocked on being ELPA > because of s.el and f.el (as dash.el is on ELPA). > > Then those packages should be modified to not use s.el/dash.el/f.el > before they are included in ELPA. Just like that would be a > requirement for them to be included in Emacs. > > s.el could be modified in such a way that it would have compiler > warnings for the functins that Emacs Lisp already has, and where there > are different semantics encourage to use the Emacs Lisp way of > writting. The functions that do not have a equivalent could added in > subr-x. Users would then, slowly, migrate their code, and make it > easier to include things in ELPA in the future. > > This is just a matter of following the good practises that already > exist in Emacs. It would be a bad idea to start making a mess, and > then encouraging this mess to become larger. Posited on s.el being a mess, which neither it, nor dash.el is. They are both nice APIs that are nice to use. I did manage to drop a dash.el dependency form one of my libraries and replace it with seq.el. That worked because it was close to a drop in. But people have already chosen to work with dash, or s, or f, even though it means adding a dependency because they are nice. Phil