From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: dash.el [was: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs] Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 21:51:05 +0300 Message-ID: <87eerjd88s.fsf@gkayaalp.com> References: <0c88192c-3c33-46ed-95cb-b4c6928016e3@default> <873686bbl5.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87d07963ec.fsf@fastmail.fm> <873685dq73.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87wo5gc0kb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87lflv5yzx.fsf@bernoul.li> <433E8CA0-CC87-4877-B9D4-D348531B73F8@medranocalvo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="105474"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 0.9.18; emacs 28.0.50 Cc: jonas@bernoul.li, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, =?utf-8?B?QWRyacODwqFuIE1lZHJhw4PCsW8=?= Calvo , emacs-devel@gnu.org, ohwoeowho@gmail.com, self@gkayaalp.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 16 20:52:03 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ja1ul-000RJM-3n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 May 2020 20:52:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36684 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ja1uk-0002ru-31 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 May 2020 14:52:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58148) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ja1u5-0002Sh-9Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 May 2020 14:51:21 -0400 Original-Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:36413) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ja1u3-0000BR-Ne; Sat, 16 May 2020 14:51:20 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 159.146.10.253 Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [159.146.10.253]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E5D5060004; Sat, 16 May 2020 18:51:12 +0000 (UTC) In-reply-to: Received-SPF: none client-ip=217.70.183.195; envelope-from=self@gkayaalp.com; helo=relay3-d.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/16 14:51:15 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250515 Archived-At: On 2020-05-15 06:24 +03, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > The choice between the syntax ($ (+ $1 $2)) > and the syntax #(+ %1 %2), I think it is a small difference. > If one is ok, the other is ok. Sure. > The # syntax has the small advantage of being a little shorter. > > The $ syntax can be implemented now with a macro -- but if we want this > feature, I see no reason to hesitate to do implement it in the reader, > no need to use a macro. It would not be a lot of work to do that. I think the main point which can help pick one over the other is whether or not the reader implementation can reliably and easily be backported. AFAIU Emacs can=E2=80=99t do reader macros, so in order to implement this i= n the reader we=E2=80=99d have to change stuff in C which means the feature is li= mited to future releases. A Lisp macro (with whatever syntax, I=E2=80=99m not rea= lly partial to $, just that it=E2=80=99s short and, reserved as an operator, an= d is mildly similar to how most Unix shells do it) OTOH can be backported easily via an =E2=80=98fboundp=E2=80=99 check or (less desirably) a depende= ncy on an obsoleted package we might introduce to ELPA (would require an Emacs version check to reliably control), making it easier to adopt especially in packages. This is especially relevant for those who use Emacs from their distro repos who won=E2=80=99t be on board with latest releases possibly for years= , and for most popular packages who still support at least Emacs 24. A reader implementation would confine this to the init.el=E2=80=99s of those who (li= ke me) follow the development branch for years to come, which is unnecessarily limiting given we have the luxury of not needing to change the parser. -- =C4=B0. G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp / @cadadr / pgp: 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427