From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2020 16:41:23 +0100 Message-ID: <87eejliz18.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <56d1484e-6f41-575f-0fbb-fd2bd99ab152@yandex.ru> <87eejqnlxk.fsf@gnus.org> <3156f8b8-1db1-1858-95c3-16d213c2353a@yandex.ru> <87czz8n1gk.fsf@gnus.org> <83zh2c7bal.fsf@gnu.org> <87pn37jvzt.fsf@gnus.org> <83y2hv5o1v.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14790"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: dgutov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 19 16:42:17 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kqeN7-0003iU-IF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2020 16:42:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37408 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kqeN6-0006Ce-Gp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2020 10:42:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34610) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kqeMN-0005mZ-TD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2020 10:41:31 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2]:38350) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kqeMM-0000r7-3W; Sat, 19 Dec 2020 10:41:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=yNTTfqKePsjwyupC8bJuIQN5VhQyJpoI2prSGe3J2Ic=; b=Fls7pYLLqKhN32ihnAOoTr7BLp El6XQvh8CfFucWgMmBzvJs3RYTvGCFNSkMLTPOiNYTdgSgYz6dnQBJuHsMnpy3xMiC37sv+xorNdl 3WFeyUReEyVYbRL5UTusHAo4tPOlX8MWEdfUsrct+bqvxxiimn92dnlAhIb91iMev/k8=; Original-Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kqeMG-00047G-Ul; Sat, 19 Dec 2020 16:41:27 +0100 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAIVBMVEWqscbb19P+/fwx VJUqWKl1Pltdapg5bc1ujcNDdND///9cVpW2AAAAAWJLR0QKaND0VgAAAAd0SU1FB+QMEw8iDRQC m+QAAAGXSURBVDjLbZRNb4JAEIYXNZajou0Zt4nxWAtoemtiaepV5Q+ASnuzaVPKjZgmcrfpOv+2 yy4fu7BvQtjwZGb2nZmAkKh+oZ6BbKsu21l7Cx/Z+4bcjRcdkWXgmkbW2pn7CoB/PHejisADz1oz YM7ECsFxTIuwVOYyoooBgNDXh2FWIPuYi0wxDjx3VUbEEJMMnGnNTgmqAHik1W8di4PSM83kUzBx N9xH0aE2z5RZlH2EAC/ssPUk56MHgHt2GspgHMNvi5+clQgGAF/8ZLo56LJmZBfbvzIS5GAbFU2J PrP74nZeI4QDSvl042eWtQDkHV1QL9GQHjMngypCv6RJmiQpSCB4qrQQQS/LTu90l73FGrlvciwt CWCyjM4tFaANOeM6GNGeX1PvrPki6ApbshPBFSFpml7oQ3gfSwBE0/sHpGknGdwAQXr/uwnMMKKd 5SsnAVp9pyzObfxhrDBYzbUJHiswrEBHAkLECWCqjAiLZauDN77PDZCNSQ1sa3FUpsoH0QSy6HXn s71CoY8stfzqTyTL+Ae/LQOjQE/KlgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMC0xMi0xOVQxNToz NDoxMyswMDowMKr5EMUAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjAtMTItMTlUMTU6MzQ6MTMrMDA6 MDDbpKh5AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: A Certain Ratio's _Of Factory New York_: "Do The Du" In-Reply-To: <83y2hv5o1v.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 18 Dec 2020 13:52:28 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261251 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> What has been suggested is that only modes where it makes sense should >> enable the toolbar (and there probably aren't that many where it makes >> much sense). > > But that's exactly the situation I described above. Suppose you type > "M-x": this enters the minibuffer, where you have a new mode in > effect, and some (most?) tool-bar buttons make no sense. Would you > like those buttons, or maybe the entire tool bar, to be removed now? > > Similar situation exists when I have 2 windows, one of them showing > *scratch*, and switche between them -- would you like the tool bar to > disappear when I'm in *scratch*? No, I wouldn't, which is why I don't really suggest doing this. Somebody may come up with ideas that makes the proposition workeable, and I see that Drew has one -- he suggests having a blank toolbar in these instances, and ... perhaps? It's a lot of "dead" space real estate, though, so I'm not really enthusiastic. In the cases you describe today, Emacs does switch between different toolbars (if the modes in question have different ones). For instance, `C-x m', and you'll get the Message toolbar with things like "Send" and "Preview". If you `M-x', Emacs will switch to the non-specific toolbar with things like "Save", all of them greyed out. This, perhaps, shows that Drew's idea is a good one -- it's less confusing showing a completely blank toolbar than one with all the items greyed out? >> However, that's probably technically difficult -- people have setups >> where they've computed the size of the Emacs windows based on whether >> (or not) they have toolbars enabled? So switching the toolbars on/off >> dynamically may lead to some difficulties in that area? > > That's another complication, but we could perhaps handle it in some > reasonable way. Appearing and disappearing tool bar, OTOH, is > something we need to consider seriously before we decide that such a > mode of tool-bar display is sensible. Definitely. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no