From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin_Le_Gouguec?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Allowing point to be outside the window? Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2021 16:39:01 +0100 Message-ID: <87ee70l27e.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87ilwd7zaq.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <87ilwd7zaq.fsf@yahoo.com> <83bl24yaed.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfvg7l51.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33997"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Po Lu , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 28 16:39:53 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mrMHQ-0008d3-Uw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 16:39:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60492 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mrMHO-0007sP-Ub for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 10:39:50 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37214) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mrMGh-0007Ci-8d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 10:39:07 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a00:1450:4864:20::430] (port=44964 helo=mail-wr1-x430.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mrMGf-0000T3-He; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 10:39:07 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x430.google.com with SMTP id l16so31008855wrp.11; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 07:39:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=G5F7qDMBRGII/4/01+6ne9cvytrGViZ4MEUsi0Yrnnk=; b=XhiHMToKCB0JmO0AmR7LlC3FgxI4JJmogeVC7EBR6naHFxAAi9onSDsIX9TRK/9Sqj 3Ya7p/PBScrcUrjyWdX2UGsKgEguZmfoBzjN0ysyVv64SOWknESiQ8wMO+wqp3aou8BO XKdBGMsRV9FCu4aRFCMElsD6C0IPA0EWEsVbso3kMp8RPT0kDgtV3aIiAVrxLi7rBPIm gg6ThM6v5I61sucQxnEiOdDuVmilQHO3oExRnDOWZEa40i/FpFHyyQuv3fjMRsVWDjly Qn0K4yLDAiMFNyPpZwHnTG0aGcEpn+1YdaimRDAUNWL4bcgt5/h8p0Rj+cnbcoS2q06I ixHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=G5F7qDMBRGII/4/01+6ne9cvytrGViZ4MEUsi0Yrnnk=; b=3w3w4oEMSa1LeYCnFjVToJb9ktoU9tCd8ffn9hTfl+jOaVQrhDIXf8uJYjyUdYle6P +iDkqiq99IkLk8Knj63R17l+kOOD+zU39TGUuMYOu+I+4VEn6sGOs7qaoz6VTGhQp7aW WOISQt2ClBUHrF3m2TGRhglNHo8faqOOi2WNNlvI707tcZvO2HBZW86D5/BCGjuuTvzX mn5tgJBQs9PqxLrSA2aq23tsfrUSe0D5xy9xCFUNkG+hMSe8UZuE1PyTAnkyv8S8MhjH aVnjDFJrmehwPPd2PxJOCir8BQHg8GSct4xQo6X2pqS8MC/yHlZOQD49ufuH7DlvKNFe vqdw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532OVO/EcY/md5i2o8FQN03zgTRqM4tzy/+7ZMTbBtW1EGzDlVBc ZkpMOR8TUREEnlhqFo4w9aI0pZZliSk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzWGrOQ+7gzqvxcfQS7yR16HTs4DmK6Y2nOher260EtNzdkbIPXUTHH2LffCNAXXCAOTQT3Zg== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:5643:: with SMTP id j3mr28184934wrw.138.1638113942289; Sun, 28 Nov 2021 07:39:02 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from amdahl30 ([2a01:e0a:253:fe0:2ef0:5dff:fed2:7b49]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r7sm10932150wrq.29.2021.11.28.07.39.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 28 Nov 2021 07:39:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Sun, 28 Nov 2021 14:03:23 +0000") X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::430 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::430; envelope-from=kevin.legouguec@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x430.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:280421 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: >> >> From: Po Lu >> >> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2021 11:07:57 +0800 > >> >> I wonder what would be involved in allowing point to be outside a >> >> window's visible area. > > Why would anybody want this? Why do you want this? This isn't a > rhetorical question. Because other programs do it isn't a satisfactory > reason. I'll bite: because a user could want to peek a few screenfuls ahead/behind, while keeping the cursor at a point of interest, where they can come back with any point movement (e.g. arrow keys) or by just typing in ("Greetings Mister=E2=80=A6 *scrolls back up* Mackenzie, RET RET I trust this Sunday afternoon finds you well=E2=80=A6"). Granted, IME I rarely want to check out an arbitrary "full screenfuls"; I usually want to check out the end of the current function (C-M-e) or look for a pattern (C-s); if that takes me off-screen, C-u C-SPC brings me right back where I was. I wouldn't begrudge users who'd prefer the behaviour Po suggests, though. > I detest this behaviour, and that Emacs doesn't (currently) do it is a > large part of the reason why I use Emacs. With these other programs I > experience a constant background stress, that the careless or accidental > depression of a key causes BANG!!! and the text I was reading > disappears for ever, being overwritten by the text around point. I don't see how (what I understand of) Po's proposition could lead to such catastrophic text Armageddon. And in any case, Emacs's trusty undo would surely come and save the day.