From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 13:09:39 +0800 Message-ID: <87edzrq19o.fsf@localhost> References: <87o7z61v59.fsf@gmail.com> <87bkv527p5.fsf@gmail.com> <835yld93w7.fsf@gnu.org> <877d5t0yrn.fsf@gmail.com> <87r140yuof.fsf@gmail.com> <875yl9e7zm.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1y2irhn.fsf@yahoo.com> <87wndmaaow.fsf@localhost> <87tu8qa8cz.fsf@localhost> <87fskawjvw.fsf@gmail.com> <87ilp6qsj2.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31011"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Tim Cross , Po Lu , Richard Stallman , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Masterson Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 14 07:09:40 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o0yo8-0007rO-MZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 07:09:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53340 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0yo7-0007Ww-FB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 01:09:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54158) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0yn4-0006pm-4l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 01:08:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2c]:39929) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0yn1-00086e-Qm; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 01:08:33 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com with SMTP id a9so5775377qvt.6; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 22:08:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=XOJXJpqLGPFFp3VlbfeNFom7qQpjziFJNCOUt43WaO4=; b=Zlg7sl7oQ6MGiAhqchIcu79yVieVKE0/KiZxjlsdDlrrUz04HnwCdDnlp9mWgXCQVO mBHD2WswL3SSesBooq0gBc3RugxrsV7dUv731xOWScToOfr+HDy+UboRXiIy+bsKOm8y d3v5tAdUG3+lgUexVwdlN4EdMXvYNI35NBlCi1bpOnDh71EQAy2NJHjF3MA/9xbyF09R wZTEuRIP/LzJs+JP+brI7XNXfGpGhGkPBE4kQOO/clxvzOiJ23BOsbJPwceleChKZfzM U3shn7RVSNbDVOlUz6LekIobi8pOYFy+2ih/hF4N6wjVrxbNTSQHXOfcyW2C57JYjtra r2AQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=XOJXJpqLGPFFp3VlbfeNFom7qQpjziFJNCOUt43WaO4=; b=rVwaIemxYxIx8Mh6t8mMueRwI+I0iogTOTOLtaG/lmrevzFtr53e0eOEdlweelErku 7Km2CVK4GLKbXn1zOc0fw/rDe8cqPb6b+0f13CeQvybudQ3hPdsoElgezgV/QTG9rpIY nG9+guiT+01RsKS+bKhUu5Yh4AzEl8NVSNmTXnJLj9L+hKuQdub7NxjTMQEekU0kHIaU y3SAj/NNpr0fmIraEJWL4mOXOXrwdXKIH8/Q6qXOgx6Y/KgomY1206fZV5DIquim/a6d kE1zDomnej7xmphui8R2GNuvrtyqJcvtY0T3/njhghPr24fmm9IytaKJSL0pextvnDkN qYFA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+pQRW3j6eTXZoPPLYl675qdiOsTl+iSaXe2VxbIXrq6YbQTSpu pW/atEbTYEuev7tlJ5O6Hos= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1uCn5qtDdwjPLfmCFmu61WvHCN8yb+DBNanpwFx4HYuWU1qvRljxmsQmJfxgCfskWho5ONu1g== X-Received: by 2002:ad4:404d:0:b0:46b:9abd:8880 with SMTP id r13-20020ad4404d000000b0046b9abd8880mr2045127qvp.43.1655183310174; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 22:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (22.b2.a86c.ip4.static.sl-reverse.com. [108.168.178.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o7-20020ac841c7000000b0030515120916sm6286173qtm.44.2022.06.13.22.08.29 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 13 Jun 2022 22:08:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2c; envelope-from=yantar92@gmail.com; helo=mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291164 Archived-At: David Masterson writes: >>> Semantic/Bovine ?? >> >> Org is not context-free. > > But could it be moved in that direction? (ie. Organice) I don't think so. It is motivated by the fundamental Org syntax design, AFAIU. (mostly by first match wins design). We are not going to change fundamentals of the Org syntax. It will break backward compatibility. >> Also, Org maintaners previously rejected the idea of implementing Org >> parser not in Elisp. Mainly because it would limit the ability to >> maintain and contribute to Org - one would need to learn another >> programming language to alter anything in Org syntax. > > Hmmm. That would make it difficult to keep the language "parseable" by a > different parser. Elisp would not provide the checks for (say) keeping > the language context-free. At this point, we are trying to "freeze" Org syntax as much as possible. So, major changes are not expected. Different parsers should not suffer from future changes (if they do, we should not make those changes to start with). As for keeping checks, we do have a set of parser tests using ERT. So, major breakage will be prevented. On top of this, we plan to make the parser tests more friendly to third-party tools: https://orgmode.org/list/87fsqzi4tw.fsf@localhost Best, Ihor