From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 17:13:58 +0200 Message-ID: <87edx7hu15.fsf@telefonica.net> References: <8735dn30if.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmgr8m3t.fsf@yahoo.com> <83pmgr88sk.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfln6t3p.fsf@yahoo.com> <83ilmj873l.fsf@gnu.org> <8735dn6rp7.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27997"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:OQxxnf9BpLhpQx1ANHrLPbAyFZY= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 23 17:15:07 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oQVcQ-00078G-IM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 17:15:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33174 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQVcP-00078A-L3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 11:15:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54072) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQVbi-0006QK-H3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 11:14:22 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:35464) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQVbc-0006yX-LS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 11:14:18 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oQVbQ-0005lk-UF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 17:14:04 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293892 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > I guess you misunderstood what I said. I just said alternatives to X > shouldn't be made the default, since almost everyone will be using X for > the forseeable future. The 90% X Firefox user share you mentioned several times was a statistic of dubious relevance when it came out 6 months ago and is pretty much irrelevant now. The Mozilla Telemetry guys said at the time that it is not truly representative, for several reasons. And, more importantly, Wayland adoption is gaining momentum, with major distros (such as Ubuntu) defaulting to it and KDE joining Gnome as a stable Wayland-based desktop environment. I'll say that by 2025 Wayland will be more popular than X by a wide margin, and then X will have a hard time with basic maintenance by lack of manpower (some insiders say that it already suffers from that.) This doesn't mean much for Emacs on the short and medium term. Emacs works on XWayland, and XWayland is improving so applications running on it doesn't suffer from a degraded user experience compared to native Wayland ones, apart from the constraints related to being based on X. Another claim you made several times is that distros will stop providing GTK2 packages soon. This is hard to believe, since other major applications (such as GIMP, as you said) also use GTK2 and distros still provide packages for libraries way more ancient and obscure than GTK2. Finally, it seems to me that your experience with some GTK developers is influencing your technical discussion on this thread.