From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Jose E. Marchesi" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Instead of pcase Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2023 00:45:57 +0100 Message-ID: <87edgkouoa.fsf@gnu.org> References: <21eda04f-b974-0c56-ce6c-4fc0810e4e13@gutov.dev> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28571"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Po Lu , Michael Heerdegen , Jim Porter , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 21 00:46:47 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r5DyY-0007FR-Sw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 00:46:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r5Dy7-0005oV-NQ; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 18:46:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r5Dy0-0005o5-0l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 18:46:14 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r5Dxz-0006jP-7t; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 18:46:11 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=XxrKUzAFmqSTTRblupRa7IgcEOTIaUyvtLlIQ/hfOhw=; b=kXMdHYSe5Rfa8aumWbPB DiDzTI4QXzIQlJQAjIPZPkKQ6NMsm/XYtEJeR8Mhx/0iCXxb+k6l4rBfxpxUtqeNloTySdziRAl6d n6Ywh9UltDOG49dda5Ac0Efxzt5Fjz7nBV8SL/LlZ9tadOE1d+eMLnaKCQ0rMTdUPBDZqaq/66C3w ekbdZnrOHuI47LJMJhfAOhdmQBjMmUXIRmkhVvnaU4OBzPQqnWDIRW574UFEfjudtjBmJrYlEAry1 IoQxkXvsnTgk1GmzULGudsB2wD41gJtRn6+G+hcnB11YsbIWfXXbV7lA29UCjvvrCItccd6Qr5Imw thqPNMt3MBYnlw==; In-Reply-To: <21eda04f-b974-0c56-ce6c-4fc0810e4e13@gutov.dev> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Mon, 20 Nov 2023 17:29:45 +0200") X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:313075 Archived-At: > On 19/11/2023 16:29, Po Lu wrote: >> My organization largely comprises C programmers who use Emacs for >> programming, as a means to an end rather than an end in itself. Our two >> sites centrally provision their own Emacs configurations to all users, >> which incorporates a large corpus of code for editing and analyzing C >> programs in accord with local practice. Naturally, the existence of >> this corpus demands that programmers be charged with its upkeep, and as >> no position is set aside for such work, this responsibility devolves on >> individuals almost at random. This is a representative microcosm of the >> wider Emacs userbase, I think: for most are not hobbyists, or even >> employed programmers for whom programming is also an avocation, but men >> working for salaries, with bills to pay and families to... you can >> complete the rest of this trite description. And it is they whom I >> canvassed. > > Polling professional C developers on whether they are comfortable with > advanced syntax inspired by high-level languages like ML or Haskell is > pretty much a self-fulfilling prophecy. > > Ask a company of OCaml developers (we have at least one representative > of such among active contributors), or even a corpus of experienced > JavaScript developers, the results will be different. Following your own reasoning, wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that the vast majority of Lisp developers won't be comfortable with such an "advanced syntax", considering that Lisp (unlike C) has basically no syntax? > Anyway, the results confirm what we've been aware of for some time: > that the documentation for pcase needs work. Jim Porter's list of > steps should help a lot.