From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Emacs website, Lisp, and other Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 07:50:45 +0200 Message-ID: <87ed6qbah6.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <87sevj9b50.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86h6bzqj2v.fsf@gnu.org> <87ed718o45.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <87le186g3f.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14098"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:m8H7OsIbP1TZS5tqfYxcJqYMiVQ= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 15 08:06:18 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1seTcn-0003Uu-6e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 08:06:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1seTcI-0007XV-MG; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 02:05:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1seTOF-0003Qe-Jr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 01:51:19 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1seTO7-00067N-Hn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 01:51:14 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1seTO3-000A0J-Kz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 07:51:04 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 02:05:42 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322763 Archived-At: Madhu wrote: >>> Comprehension of the user's program reaches its greatest >>> heights for Lisp programs, because the simplicity of Lisp >>> syntax makes intelligent editing operations easier to >>> implement, while the complexity of other languages [...] >> >> Sorry, but we don't have _any_ of those advantages :) > > I believe elisp (and lisp) had those advantages when this > paper was written. What has chages is now the berated > complexity of other languages (including syntactic > elementss) have been dragged into elisp over the last decade > or two, (some of it through exploiting a notional > anti-common-lisp sentiment). While the basic sexp structure > sull seems the same, now to understand the "modern code" you > have to refer understand and familiarize yourself and read > documentation of the constructs in the other languages > before you can understand elisp. I think this is typical for Lisp, it leads to complexity - more so than many other languages where you just add one more line to be executed. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal