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* Integrate sr-speedbar.el with speedbar.el
@ 2008-12-19 16:44 Andy Stewart
  2008-12-20  1:43 ` Chong Yidong
  2008-12-21  4:27 ` richardeng
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Andy Stewart @ 2008-12-19 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 584 bytes --]

Hi all,

Speedbar is very useful for file browser or other programming.
But this have a big problem is, speedbar is show in other frame.
So need switch between two frame, not very convenient.

And have a exist extension sr-speedbar.el (write by "Sebastian Rose")
can make speedbar show in same frame.

Find it at: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/sr-speedbar.el

I'm another developer of sr-speedbar.
I have attached newest version of sr-speedbar.

I want to integrate sr-speedbar with speedbar.
"Sebastian Rose" and me were sign copyright of FSF.

Any suggestion?

  -- Andy


[-- Attachment #2: sr-speedbar.el --]
[-- Type: application/emacs-lisp, Size: 17344 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Integrate sr-speedbar.el with speedbar.el
  2008-12-19 16:44 Integrate sr-speedbar.el with speedbar.el Andy Stewart
@ 2008-12-20  1:43 ` Chong Yidong
  2008-12-20  3:35   ` Re[2]: " Eric M. Ludlam
  2008-12-21  4:27 ` richardeng
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Chong Yidong @ 2008-12-20  1:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andy Stewart; +Cc: zappo, emacs-devel

Andy Stewart <lazycat.manatee@gmail.com> writes:

> Speedbar is very useful for file browser or other programming.
> But this have a big problem is, speedbar is show in other frame.
> So need switch between two frame, not very convenient.
>
> And have a exist extension sr-speedbar.el (write by "Sebastian Rose")
> can make speedbar show in same frame.
>
> Find it at: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/sr-speedbar.el
>
> I'm another developer of sr-speedbar.
> I have attached newest version of sr-speedbar.
>
> I want to integrate sr-speedbar with speedbar.
> "Sebastian Rose" and me were sign copyright of FSF.

Ccing Eric Ludlam, the Speedbar author.

Eric, could you give your opinion of sr-speedbar?




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re[2]: Integrate sr-speedbar.el with speedbar.el
  2008-12-20  1:43 ` Chong Yidong
@ 2008-12-20  3:35   ` Eric M. Ludlam
  2008-12-20  3:42     ` Andy Stewart
  2008-12-20  4:32     ` Chong Yidong
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Eric M. Ludlam @ 2008-12-20  3:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Chong Yidong; +Cc: lazycat.manatee, emacs-devel

>>> Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> seems to think that:
>Andy Stewart <lazycat.manatee@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Speedbar is very useful for file browser or other programming.
>> But this have a big problem is, speedbar is show in other frame.
>> So need switch between two frame, not very convenient.
>>
>> And have a exist extension sr-speedbar.el (write by "Sebastian Rose")
>> can make speedbar show in same frame.
>>
>> Find it at: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/sr-speedbar.el
>>
>> I'm another developer of sr-speedbar.
>> I have attached newest version of sr-speedbar.
>>
>> I want to integrate sr-speedbar with speedbar.
>> "Sebastian Rose" and me were sign copyright of FSF.
>
>Ccing Eric Ludlam, the Speedbar author.
>
>Eric, could you give your opinion of sr-speedbar?

Hi,

  I read small bits of sr-speedbar a little while ago.  As far as I
know, it uses the same techniques that ECB uses, by advising various
windowing functions in order to keep the speedbar window safe.  It
also uses a bunch of speedbar's hooks. A while ago (June?) there were
lots of discussions on emacs-devel on how to make ECB work without
advice in Emacs.  I would imagine that the simpler sr-speedbar would
benefit from the same kind of thing.

  I lost track of the ECB discussion though, so I don't know what
sorts of changes were made for it.

  I can read some more of sr-speedbar if a more detailed opinion is
needed.

Eric

-- 
          Eric Ludlam:                       eric@siege-engine.com
   Siege: www.siege-engine.com          Emacs: http://cedet.sourceforge.net




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Integrate sr-speedbar.el with speedbar.el
  2008-12-20  3:35   ` Re[2]: " Eric M. Ludlam
@ 2008-12-20  3:42     ` Andy Stewart
  2008-12-20 13:14       ` Re[1]: " Eric M. Ludlam
  2008-12-20  4:32     ` Chong Yidong
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Andy Stewart @ 2008-12-20  3:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric M. Ludlam; +Cc: Chong Yidong, emacs-devel

Hi Eric,

"Eric M. Ludlam" <eric@siege-engine.com> writes:

>>>> Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> seems to think that:
>>Andy Stewart <lazycat.manatee@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Speedbar is very useful for file browser or other programming.
>>> But this have a big problem is, speedbar is show in other frame.
>>> So need switch between two frame, not very convenient.
>>>
>>> And have a exist extension sr-speedbar.el (write by "Sebastian Rose")
>>> can make speedbar show in same frame.
>>>
>>> Find it at: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/sr-speedbar.el
>>>
>>> I'm another developer of sr-speedbar.
>>> I have attached newest version of sr-speedbar.
>>>
>>> I want to integrate sr-speedbar with speedbar.
>>> "Sebastian Rose" and me were sign copyright of FSF.
>>
>>Ccing Eric Ludlam, the Speedbar author.
>>
>>Eric, could you give your opinion of sr-speedbar?
>
> Hi,
>
>   I read small bits of sr-speedbar a little while ago.  As far as I
> know, it uses the same techniques that ECB uses, by advising various
> windowing functions in order to keep the speedbar window safe.  It
> also uses a bunch of speedbar's hooks. A while ago (June?) there were
> lots of discussions on emacs-devel on how to make ECB work without
> advice in Emacs.  I would imagine that the simpler sr-speedbar would
> benefit from the same kind of thing.
>
>   I lost track of the ECB discussion though, so I don't know what
> sorts of changes were made for it.
>
>   I can read some more of sr-speedbar if a more detailed opinion is
> needed.
>
> Eric
Yep, i agree.
It's not good if use many advice in sr-speedbar.

I want to ask,
it's possible support "same frame display" option in speedbar?
And modified some code of speedbar.

So don't need advices and so many hook to implement it.

  -- Andy




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Integrate sr-speedbar.el with speedbar.el
  2008-12-20  3:35   ` Re[2]: " Eric M. Ludlam
  2008-12-20  3:42     ` Andy Stewart
@ 2008-12-20  4:32     ` Chong Yidong
  2008-12-20  4:36       ` Andy Stewart
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Chong Yidong @ 2008-12-20  4:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric M. Ludlam; +Cc: lazycat.manatee, emacs-devel

"Eric M. Ludlam" <eric@siege-engine.com> writes:

>   I read small bits of sr-speedbar a little while ago.  As far as I
> know, it uses the same techniques that ECB uses, by advising various
> windowing functions in order to keep the speedbar window safe.  It
> also uses a bunch of speedbar's hooks. A while ago (June?) there were
> lots of discussions on emacs-devel on how to make ECB work without
> advice in Emacs.  I would imagine that the simpler sr-speedbar would
> benefit from the same kind of thing.

Yes, I agree.  So, discussion of this should wait until we add
window-group functionality to Emacs (after the 23.1 release).




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Integrate sr-speedbar.el with speedbar.el
  2008-12-20  4:32     ` Chong Yidong
@ 2008-12-20  4:36       ` Andy Stewart
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Andy Stewart @ 2008-12-20  4:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Chong Yidong; +Cc: emacs-devel, Eric M. Ludlam

Hi Yidong,

Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> writes:

> "Eric M. Ludlam" <eric@siege-engine.com> writes:
>
>>   I read small bits of sr-speedbar a little while ago.  As far as I
>> know, it uses the same techniques that ECB uses, by advising various
>> windowing functions in order to keep the speedbar window safe.  It
>> also uses a bunch of speedbar's hooks. A while ago (June?) there were
>> lots of discussions on emacs-devel on how to make ECB work without
>> advice in Emacs.  I would imagine that the simpler sr-speedbar would
>> benefit from the same kind of thing.
>
> Yes, I agree.  So, discussion of this should wait until we add
> window-group functionality to Emacs (after the 23.1 release).
That's looks need long time to wait `window-group' functionality.
When the Emacs release 23.1?

I will try to modified the code of speedbar to implement "same frame
display" and don't use advice.

  -- Andy




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re[1]: Integrate sr-speedbar.el with speedbar.el
  2008-12-20  3:42     ` Andy Stewart
@ 2008-12-20 13:14       ` Eric M. Ludlam
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Eric M. Ludlam @ 2008-12-20 13:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andy Stewart; +Cc: cyd, emacs-devel

>>> Andy Stewart <lazycat.manatee@gmail.com> seems to think that:
>Hi Eric,
>
>"Eric M. Ludlam" <eric@siege-engine.com> writes:
>
>>>>> Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> seems to think that:
>>>Andy Stewart <lazycat.manatee@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Speedbar is very useful for file browser or other programming.
>>>> But this have a big problem is, speedbar is show in other frame.
>>>> So need switch between two frame, not very convenient.
>>>>
>>>> And have a exist extension sr-speedbar.el (write by "Sebastian Rose")
>>>> can make speedbar show in same frame.
>>>>
>>>> Find it at: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/sr-speedbar.el
>>>>
>>>> I'm another developer of sr-speedbar.
>>>> I have attached newest version of sr-speedbar.
>>>>
>>>> I want to integrate sr-speedbar with speedbar.
>>>> "Sebastian Rose" and me were sign copyright of FSF.
>>>
>>>Ccing Eric Ludlam, the Speedbar author.
>>>
>>>Eric, could you give your opinion of sr-speedbar?
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>   I read small bits of sr-speedbar a little while ago.  As far as I
>> know, it uses the same techniques that ECB uses, by advising various
>> windowing functions in order to keep the speedbar window safe.  It
>> also uses a bunch of speedbar's hooks. A while ago (June?) there were
>> lots of discussions on emacs-devel on how to make ECB work without
>> advice in Emacs.  I would imagine that the simpler sr-speedbar would
>> benefit from the same kind of thing.
>>
>>   I lost track of the ECB discussion though, so I don't know what
>> sorts of changes were made for it.
>>
>>   I can read some more of sr-speedbar if a more detailed opinion is
>> needed.
>>
>> Eric
>Yep, i agree.
>It's not good if use many advice in sr-speedbar.
>
>I want to ask,
>it's possible support "same frame display" option in speedbar?
>And modified some code of speedbar.
>
>So don't need advices and so many hook to implement it.
  [ ... ]

Hi,

  I think it would be good to modify speedbar to make this sort of
thing easier.  I think ECB has similar problems when it integrates
speedbar into its display set.

  Speedbar was built on top of dframe.el.  dframe.el was meant to be a
utility any "auto updating in a frame" tool could use.  I don't think
any other such tools were written though.  dframe.el seems like the
place to add specialized window management code instead of speedbar.

Eric

-- 
          Eric Ludlam:                       eric@siege-engine.com
   Siege: www.siege-engine.com          Emacs: http://cedet.sourceforge.net




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Integrate sr-speedbar.el with speedbar.el
  2008-12-19 16:44 Integrate sr-speedbar.el with speedbar.el Andy Stewart
  2008-12-20  1:43 ` Chong Yidong
@ 2008-12-21  4:27 ` richardeng
  2008-12-21  4:49   ` Andy Stewart
  2008-12-21  6:42   ` Thierry Volpiatto
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: richardeng @ 2008-12-21  4:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andy Stewart; +Cc: emacs-devel

Andy Stewart wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Speedbar is very useful for file browser or other programming.
> But this have a big problem is, speedbar is show in other frame.
> So need switch between two frame, not very convenient.
>
> And have a exist extension sr-speedbar.el (write by "Sebastian Rose")
> can make speedbar show in same frame.
>
> Find it at: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/sr-speedbar.el
>
> I'm another developer of sr-speedbar.
> I have attached newest version of sr-speedbar.
>
> I want to integrate sr-speedbar with speedbar.
> "Sebastian Rose" and me were sign copyright of FSF.
>
> Any suggestion?
>
>   -- Andy
>
>   
I love this feature, it's useful in console.


Bug 1: 
eval (sr-speedbar-close) twice, then (sr-speedbar-open) got following error:
Window width 0 too small (after splitting)

So, check sr-speedbar before real closing: 
----------------------- 
diff -c /tmp/sr-speedbar.el\~ /tmp/sr-speedbar.el                                    
--- /tmp/sr-speedbar.el~   2008-11-06 07:57:08.000000000 -0800                                    
+++ /tmp/sr-speedbar.el    2008-11-06 07:59:21.000000000 -0800                                    
@@ -270,16 +270,17 @@
   (interactive)                                                                                               
   (let ((current-window (selected-window)))                                                                   
     (if (and sr-speedbar-window                                                                               
-           speedbar-buffer                                                                                    
-           (window-live-p sr-speedbar-window) ;when `sr-speedbar-window' visible                              
-           (buffer-live-p speedbar-buffer))   ;and contain `speedbar-buffer'                                  
-       (sr-speedbar-select-window)                                                                            
-      (if (> (current-window-take-width) 1) ;if width of `sr-speedbar-window' is a valid value                
-         (setq sr-speedbar-width (current-window-take-width))) ;remember it make next restore same width      
-      (bury-buffer)                                                                                           
-      (if (and current-window                                                                                 
-              (window-live-p current-window))                                                                 
-        (select-window current-window)))))                                                                    
+            speedbar-buffer                                                                                   
+            (window-live-p sr-speedbar-window) ;when `sr-speedbar-window' visible                             
+            (buffer-live-p speedbar-buffer))   ;and contain `speedbar-buffer'                                 
+       (progn                                                                                                 
+         (sr-speedbar-select-window)                                                                          
+         (if (> (current-window-take-width) 1) ;if width of `sr-speedbar-window' is a valid value             
+             (setq sr-speedbar-width (current-window-take-width))) ;remember it make next restore same width  
+         (bury-buffer)                                                                                        
+         (if (and current-window                                                                              
+                  (window-live-p current-window))                                                             
+             (select-window current-window))))))                                                              
 
                                                                  
Bug 2: trivial bug
;;; Installation:                                                                     
;;                                                                                    
;; Copy sr-speedbar.el to your load-path and add to your ~/.emacs                     
;;                                                                                    
;;  (require 'sr-speedbar)                                                            
;;  (global-set-key (kbd "s-s") 'sr-speedbar-togge)             		// --> toggle
;;                                                                                    
;; ... or any key binding you like.                                                



Bug 3: (speedbar) then (sr-speedbar-open) report error "Wrong type argument: stringp, nil"






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Integrate sr-speedbar.el with speedbar.el
  2008-12-21  4:27 ` richardeng
@ 2008-12-21  4:49   ` Andy Stewart
  2008-12-21  6:42   ` Thierry Volpiatto
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Andy Stewart @ 2008-12-21  4:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: richardeng; +Cc: emacs-devel

Hi Richard,

Thanks for you bug report.
About "bug 2", that's my mistake.
Now fix it.

About "bug 1" and "bug 3", i can't reproducte it.
Please send more details step to reproducte it.

BTW, send me or "Sebastian Rose" immediately if you find any bug, don't follow this post.

Thank you very much!

  -- Andy

richardeng <richardeng@foxmail.com> writes:

> Andy Stewart wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Speedbar is very useful for file browser or other programming.
>> But this have a big problem is, speedbar is show in other frame.
>> So need switch between two frame, not very convenient.
>>
>> And have a exist extension sr-speedbar.el (write by "Sebastian Rose")
>> can make speedbar show in same frame.
>>
>> Find it at: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/sr-speedbar.el
>>
>> I'm another developer of sr-speedbar.
>> I have attached newest version of sr-speedbar.
>>
>> I want to integrate sr-speedbar with speedbar.
>> "Sebastian Rose" and me were sign copyright of FSF.
>>
>> Any suggestion?
>>
>>   -- Andy
>>
>>   
> I love this feature, it's useful in console.
>
>
> Bug 1: eval (sr-speedbar-close) twice, then (sr-speedbar-open) got following error:
> Window width 0 too small (after splitting)
>
> So, check sr-speedbar before real closing: ----------------------- 
> diff -c /tmp/sr-speedbar.el\~ /tmp/sr-speedbar.el                                    ---
> /tmp/sr-speedbar.el~   2008-11-06 07:57:08.000000000 -0800                                    +++
> /tmp/sr-speedbar.el    2008-11-06 07:59:21.000000000 -0800                                    @@
> -270,16 +270,17 @@
>   (interactive)
> (let ((current-window (selected-window)))
> (if (and sr-speedbar-window
> -           speedbar-buffer
> -           (window-live-p sr-speedbar-window) ;when `sr-speedbar-window' visible
> -           (buffer-live-p speedbar-buffer))   ;and contain `speedbar-buffer'
> -       (sr-speedbar-select-window)
> -      (if (> (current-window-take-width) 1) ;if width of `sr-speedbar-window' is a valid value
> -         (setq sr-speedbar-width (current-window-take-width))) ;remember it make next restore same
> width      -      (bury-buffer)
> -      (if (and current-window
> -              (window-live-p current-window))
> -        (select-window current-window)))))
> +            speedbar-buffer
> +            (window-live-p sr-speedbar-window) ;when `sr-speedbar-window' visible
> +            (buffer-live-p speedbar-buffer))   ;and contain `speedbar-buffer'
> +       (progn
> +         (sr-speedbar-select-window)
> +         (if (> (current-window-take-width) 1) ;if width of `sr-speedbar-window' is a valid value
> +             (setq sr-speedbar-width (current-window-take-width))) ;remember it make next restore
> same width  +         (bury-buffer)
> +         (if (and current-window
> +                  (window-live-p current-window))
> + (select-window current-window))))))
>
>                                                                  Bug 2: trivial bug
> ;;; Installation:                                                                     ;;
> ;; Copy sr-speedbar.el to your load-path and add to your ~/.emacs                     ;;
> ;;  (require 'sr-speedbar)                                                            ;;
> (global-set-key (kbd "s-s") 'sr-speedbar-togge)             		// --> toggle
> ;;                                                                                    ;; ... or any
> key binding you like.                                                
>
>
>
> Bug 3: (speedbar) then (sr-speedbar-open) report error "Wrong type argument: stringp, nil"




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Integrate sr-speedbar.el with speedbar.el
  2008-12-21  4:27 ` richardeng
  2008-12-21  4:49   ` Andy Stewart
@ 2008-12-21  6:42   ` Thierry Volpiatto
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Thierry Volpiatto @ 2008-12-21  6:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

richardeng <richardeng@foxmail.com> writes:

> Andy Stewart wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Speedbar is very useful for file browser or other programming.
>> But this have a big problem is, speedbar is show in other frame.
>> So need switch between two frame, not very convenient.
>>
>> And have a exist extension sr-speedbar.el (write by "Sebastian Rose")
>> can make speedbar show in same frame.
>>
>> Find it at: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/sr-speedbar.el
>>
>> I'm another developer of sr-speedbar.
>> I have attached newest version of sr-speedbar.
>>
>> I want to integrate sr-speedbar with speedbar.
>> "Sebastian Rose" and me were sign copyright of FSF.
>>
>> Any suggestion?
>>
>>   -- Andy
>>
>>   
> I love this feature, it's useful in console.
>
>
> Bug 1: eval (sr-speedbar-close) twice, then (sr-speedbar-open) got
> following error:
> Window width 0 too small (after splitting)
>
> So, check sr-speedbar before real closing: ----------------------- 
> diff -c /tmp/sr-speedbar.el\~ /tmp/sr-speedbar.el
> --- /tmp/sr-speedbar.el~   2008-11-06 07:57:08.000000000 -0800
> +++ /tmp/sr-speedbar.el    2008-11-06 07:59:21.000000000 -0800
> @@ -270,16 +270,17 @@
>   (interactive)
> (let ((current-window (selected-window)))
> (if (and sr-speedbar-window
> -           speedbar-buffer
> -           (window-live-p sr-speedbar-window) ;when
> sr-speedbar-window' visible                              -
> (buffer-live-p speedbar-buffer))   ;and contain `speedbar-buffer'
> -       (sr-speedbar-select-window)
> -      (if (> (current-window-take-width) 1) ;if width of
> sr-speedbar-window' is a valid value                -         (setq
> sr-speedbar-width (current-window-take-width))) ;remember it make next
> restore same width      -      (bury-buffer)
> -      (if (and current-window
> -              (window-live-p current-window))
> -        (select-window current-window)))))
> +            speedbar-buffer
> +            (window-live-p sr-speedbar-window) ;when
> sr-speedbar-window' visible                             +
> (buffer-live-p speedbar-buffer))   ;and contain `speedbar-buffer'
> +       (progn
> +         (sr-speedbar-select-window)
> +         (if (> (current-window-take-width) 1) ;if width of
> sr-speedbar-window' is a valid value             +             (setq
> sr-speedbar-width (current-window-take-width))) ;remember it make next
> restore same width  +         (bury-buffer)
> +         (if (and current-window
> +                  (window-live-p current-window))
> +             (select-window current-window))))))                                                              
>
>                                                                  Bug
> 2: trivial bug
> ;;; Installation:
> ;;
> ;; Copy sr-speedbar.el to your load-path and add to your ~/.emacs
> ;;
> ;;  (require 'sr-speedbar)
> ;;  (global-set-key (kbd "s-s") 'sr-speedbar-togge)
> // --> toggle
> ;;
> ;; ... or any key binding you like.                                                
>
>
>
> Bug 3: (speedbar) then (sr-speedbar-open) report error "Wrong type argument: stringp, nil"

This seem to fix this bug here:

,----
| (defalias 'speedbar 'sr-speedbar-toggle)
`----


-- 
A + Thierry Volpiatto
Location: Saint-Cyr-Sur-Mer - France





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2008-12-21  6:42 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2008-12-19 16:44 Integrate sr-speedbar.el with speedbar.el Andy Stewart
2008-12-20  1:43 ` Chong Yidong
2008-12-20  3:35   ` Re[2]: " Eric M. Ludlam
2008-12-20  3:42     ` Andy Stewart
2008-12-20 13:14       ` Re[1]: " Eric M. Ludlam
2008-12-20  4:32     ` Chong Yidong
2008-12-20  4:36       ` Andy Stewart
2008-12-21  4:27 ` richardeng
2008-12-21  4:49   ` Andy Stewart
2008-12-21  6:42   ` Thierry Volpiatto

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