Some comments on the MSYS-based build

Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Óscar Fuentes]

/nt/INSTALL.MSYS says

"A nice GUI installer, called mingw-get,"

mingw-get has no GUI yet. It is a planned feature. However,
mingw-get-inst (confusing, uh?) is a GUI front-end that invokes
mingw-get for MinGW/MSYS installation. It onlyl supports the most
essential packages, though. The URL for mingw-get-inst is:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/files/Installer/mingw-get-inst/


/nt/INSTALL.MSYS says that mingw-developer-toolkit and msys-automake
should be installed. The mingw-get XML file for mingw-developer-toolkit
says that it includes mingw-automake and the XML file for msys-automake
says:

        <paragraph>This msys port of automake has been modified specifically for
          the MSYS System Builder (msys-dvlpr) environment; that is, it is
          intended to be used only when producing binary packages for the MSYS
          subsystem.  If you intend to produce executables for the native
          "mingw32" subsystem (that is, applications that should work on
          Microsoft Windows installations without the MSYS dll), then you should
          install the mingw32-automake-*, and/or the mingw32-automake1.NN-*
          packages instead.

so it seems that msys-automake is unnecesary.


MSYS has its own top-level configure script (/nt/msysconfig.sh) Shall we
expect from it the same features than from /confgiure.sh? (modulo OS
differences) For instance, /INSTALL mentions

`GZIP_PROG' is the name of the executable that compresses installed info,
	manual, and .el files.  It defaults to gzip.  Setting it to
	the empty string suppresses compression.

and my build script has

    export GZIP_PROG=""  # Do not compress .elc files
    if ! ../emacs/nt/msysconfig.sh --prefix $einstall ; then
	exit 12
    fi

but the build compresses the .el files.

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>
> Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 20:01:59 +0200
> 
> MSYS has its own top-level configure script (/nt/msysconfig.sh) Shall we
> expect from it the same features than from /confgiure.sh?

Yes.

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Óscar Fuentes]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> MSYS has its own top-level configure script (/nt/msysconfig.sh) Shall we
>> expect from it the same features than from /confgiure.sh?
>
> Yes.

Thanks.

Got it. Exporting the variable is not the right way to use the feature.
The right way is

make GZIP_PROG="" install

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>
> Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 21:52:00 +0200
> 
> Got it. Exporting the variable is not the right way to use the feature.
> The right way is
> 
> make GZIP_PROG="" install

Yes.  Actually, there's also a semi-official way of getting this at
configure time, like this:

 ac_cv_path_GZIP_PROG='' ./nt/msysconfig.sh ...

But this is not really a user-level feature, because to find out about
it, you need to know that gzip is being looked for by using the
AC_PATH_PROG Autoconf macro, i.e. you need to look into configure.ac
and then read the Autoconf manual, hardly something users are expected
to do.

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>
> Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 20:01:59 +0200
> 
> /nt/INSTALL.MSYS says
> 
> "A nice GUI installer, called mingw-get,"
> 
> mingw-get has no GUI yet. It is a planned feature. However,
> mingw-get-inst (confusing, uh?) is a GUI front-end that invokes
> mingw-get for MinGW/MSYS installation. It onlyl supports the most
> essential packages, though. The URL for mingw-get-inst is:
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/files/Installer/mingw-get-inst/

I removed the "GUI" part.

> /nt/INSTALL.MSYS says that mingw-developer-toolkit and msys-automake
> should be installed. The mingw-get XML file for mingw-developer-toolkit
> says that it includes mingw-automake and the XML file for msys-automake
> says:
> 
>         <paragraph>This msys port of automake has been modified specifically for
>           the MSYS System Builder (msys-dvlpr) environment; that is, it is
>           intended to be used only when producing binary packages for the MSYS
>           subsystem.  If you intend to produce executables for the native
>           "mingw32" subsystem (that is, applications that should work on
>           Microsoft Windows installations without the MSYS dll), then you should
>           install the mingw32-automake-*, and/or the mingw32-automake1.NN-*
>           packages instead.
> 
> so it seems that msys-automake is unnecesary.

I removed that.  What about autoconf, does it get installed by other
packages, or does it need to be installed separately?  If the latter,
I think the only alternative is the one I provided on sourceforge, is
that right?

I also added a pointer to --enable-locallisppath switch.

Thanks.

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Óscar Fuentes]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> /nt/INSTALL.MSYS says
>> 
>> "A nice GUI installer, called mingw-get,"
>> 
>> mingw-get has no GUI yet. It is a planned feature. However,
>> mingw-get-inst (confusing, uh?) is a GUI front-end that invokes
>> mingw-get for MinGW/MSYS installation. It onlyl supports the most
>> essential packages, though. The URL for mingw-get-inst is:
>> 
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/files/Installer/mingw-get-inst/
>
> I removed the "GUI" part.

IMO mingw-get-inst is far more convenient than mingw-get for easily
installing the required MinGW pieces. It takes less than one minute
of human work. I'll try to submit a patch to INSTALL.MSYS explaining
where to get and how to use mingw-get-inst for building Emacs.

>> /nt/INSTALL.MSYS says that mingw-developer-toolkit and msys-automake
>> should be installed. The mingw-get XML file for mingw-developer-toolkit
>> says that it includes mingw-automake and the XML file for msys-automake
>> says:
>> 
>>         <paragraph>This msys port of automake has been modified specifically for
>>           the MSYS System Builder (msys-dvlpr) environment; that is, it is
>>           intended to be used only when producing binary packages for the MSYS
>>           subsystem.  If you intend to produce executables for the native
>>           "mingw32" subsystem (that is, applications that should work on
>>           Microsoft Windows installations without the MSYS dll), then you should
>>           install the mingw32-automake-*, and/or the mingw32-automake1.NN-*
>>           packages instead.
>> 
>> so it seems that msys-automake is unnecesary.
>
> I removed that.  What about autoconf, does it get installed by other
> packages, or does it need to be installed separately?  If the latter,
> I think the only alternative is the one I provided on sourceforge, is
> that right?

Package mingw-developer-toolkit includes both automake and autoconf.
Actually, mingw-get-inst only provides three main packages: compilers
(the C compiler comes checked by default), MSYS Base System, and MinGW
Developer Toolkit (which implicitly requires MSYS Base System.) The user
only needs to add a mark to MinGW Developer Toolkit and he gets
everything for building Emacs.

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>
> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 16:13:14 +0200
> 
> > I removed the "GUI" part.
> 
> IMO mingw-get-inst is far more convenient than mingw-get for easily
> installing the required MinGW pieces. It takes less than one minute
> of human work. I'll try to submit a patch to INSTALL.MSYS explaining
> where to get and how to use mingw-get-inst for building Emacs.

MinGW people say that mingw-get-inst is only for installing
mingw-get.  I don't think we should invent our own MinGW procedures,
even if they seem to work.

> >> so it seems that msys-automake is unnecesary.
> >
> > I removed that.  What about autoconf, does it get installed by other
> > packages, or does it need to be installed separately?  If the latter,
> > I think the only alternative is the one I provided on sourceforge, is
> > that right?
> 
> Package mingw-developer-toolkit includes both automake and autoconf.
> Actually, mingw-get-inst only provides three main packages: compilers
> (the C compiler comes checked by default), MSYS Base System, and MinGW
> Developer Toolkit (which implicitly requires MSYS Base System.) The user
> only needs to add a mark to MinGW Developer Toolkit and he gets
> everything for building Emacs.

OK, I'll adjust the text.

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Óscar Fuentes]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> > I removed the "GUI" part.
>> 
>> IMO mingw-get-inst is far more convenient than mingw-get for easily
>> installing the required MinGW pieces. It takes less than one minute
>> of human work. I'll try to submit a patch to INSTALL.MSYS explaining
>> where to get and how to use mingw-get-inst for building Emacs.
>
> MinGW people say that mingw-get-inst is only for installing
> mingw-get.  I don't think we should invent our own MinGW procedures,
> even if they seem to work.

That is a misunderstanding that results from the poor wording on the
mingw-get-inst description. mingw-get-inst *uses* mingw-get (which is
automatically downloaded) for installing MinGW (+MSYS). In other words,
is a simplistic front-end for mingw-get.

Below is the patch that explains how to use mingw-get-inst plus some
corrections to the mingw-get part. Feel free to modify it as necessary.

diff --git a/nt/INSTALL.MSYS b/nt/INSTALL.MSYS
index c27e7e2..c1ddc45 100644
--- a/nt/INSTALL.MSYS
+++ b/nt/INSTALL.MSYS
@@ -90,6 +90,22 @@ Windows 9X as well).
   manual installation.  The next two sections describe each one of
   these.
 
+** Installing MinGW and MSYS using mingw-get-inst
+
+  mingw-get-inst is a traditional Windows installer which is the
+  easier method for obtaining the required components for building
+  Emacs. You can download it from here:
+
+    http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/files/Installer/mingw-get-inst/
+
+  (use the most recent version.) Once executed, it will go through the
+  usual steps of license agreement, choosing installation directory
+  (make sure you have write access for it), etc. It will also allow
+  you to download the latest package repository catalogues: this is
+  usually a good idea but not required. The important step is the
+  Select Components one. By default, only the C compiler is checked.
+  You must check "MinGW Developer Toolkit" too.
+
 ** Installing MinGW and MSYS using mingw-get
 
   A nice installer, called mingw-get, is available for those who don't
@@ -106,9 +122,8 @@ Windows 9X as well).
   its wizard.
 
   After that, use "mingw-get install PACKAGE" to install the following
-  additional packages:
+  additional package:
 
-   . msys-base
    . mingw-developer-toolkit
 
   (We recommend that you refrain from installing the MSYS Texinfo
@@ -118,11 +133,6 @@ Windows 9X as well).
   MSYS Texinfo, after installing it as part of msys-base, invoke the
   command "mingw-get remove msys-texinfo".)
 
-  As the above packages don't include automake, you will need to
-  install it, e.g. from here:
-
-    http://sourceforge.net/projects/ezwinports/files/automake-1.11.6-msys-bin.zip/download
-
   At this point, you should be ready to configure and build Emacs in
   its basic configuration.  Skip to the "Generating the configure
   script" section for the build instructions.  If you want to build it

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>
> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 17:03:50 +0200
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> > I removed the "GUI" part.
> >> 
> >> IMO mingw-get-inst is far more convenient than mingw-get for easily
> >> installing the required MinGW pieces. It takes less than one minute
> >> of human work. I'll try to submit a patch to INSTALL.MSYS explaining
> >> where to get and how to use mingw-get-inst for building Emacs.
> >
> > MinGW people say that mingw-get-inst is only for installing
> > mingw-get.  I don't think we should invent our own MinGW procedures,
> > even if they seem to work.
> 
> That is a misunderstanding that results from the poor wording on the
> mingw-get-inst description.

I'm quite sure I've read it from the MinGW maintainers.

> Below is the patch that explains how to use mingw-get-inst plus some
> corrections to the mingw-get part. Feel free to modify it as necessary.

Feel free to install.

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 18:18:38 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> > From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>
> > Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 17:03:50 +0200
> > 
> > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> > 
> > >> > I removed the "GUI" part.
> > >> 
> > >> IMO mingw-get-inst is far more convenient than mingw-get for easily
> > >> installing the required MinGW pieces. It takes less than one minute
> > >> of human work. I'll try to submit a patch to INSTALL.MSYS explaining
> > >> where to get and how to use mingw-get-inst for building Emacs.
> > >
> > > MinGW people say that mingw-get-inst is only for installing
> > > mingw-get.  I don't think we should invent our own MinGW procedures,
> > > even if they seem to work.
> > 
> > That is a misunderstanding that results from the poor wording on the
> > mingw-get-inst description.
> 
> I'm quite sure I've read it from the MinGW maintainers.

Here, directly from the horse's mouth:

  http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=30735128

I really don't want to start contradicting what they say.

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Óscar Fuentes]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> > MinGW people say that mingw-get-inst is only for installing
>> > mingw-get.  I don't think we should invent our own MinGW procedures,
>> > even if they seem to work.
>> 
>> That is a misunderstanding that results from the poor wording on the
>> mingw-get-inst description.
>
> I'm quite sure I've read it from the MinGW maintainers.
>
> Here, directly from the horse's mouth:
>
>   http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=30735128
>
> I really don't want to start contradicting what they say.

The key word in Earnie's message is *updating*. Indeed, mingw-get-inst
is not intended for updating, only for installing.

> Feel free to install.

I have no commit rights.

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>
> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 17:29:58 +0200
> 
> >   http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=30735128
> >
> > I really don't want to start contradicting what they say.
> 
> The key word in Earnie's message is *updating*. Indeed, mingw-get-inst
> is not intended for updating, only for installing.

Then we shouldn't tell them to use it for installing, either.

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Óscar Fuentes]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> The key word in Earnie's message is *updating*. Indeed, mingw-get-inst
>> is not intended for updating, only for installing.
>
> Then we shouldn't tell them to use it for installing, either.

Why?

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>
> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 22:06:50 +0200
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> The key word in Earnie's message is *updating*. Indeed, mingw-get-inst
> >> is not intended for updating, only for installing.
> >
> > Then we shouldn't tell them to use it for installing, either.
> 
> Why?

Because they will then use it for updating as well.

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Óscar Fuentes]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> >> The key word in Earnie's message is *updating*. Indeed, mingw-get-inst
>> >> is not intended for updating, only for installing.
>> >
>> > Then we shouldn't tell them to use it for installing, either.
>> 
>> Why?
>
> Because they will then use it for updating as well.

We can mention the restriction on INSTALL.MSYS and hopefully the MinGW
guys will modify the installer for disallowing updates. Furthermore,
nothing terrible happens if you accidentally reuse mingw-get-inst: just
wipe all the MinGW directory and reinstall.

mingw-get-inst makes installing mingw+msys a breeze. It is a waste to
not take advantage from it.

BTW, mingw-get-inst is the recommended method for installing MinGW:

http://mingw.org/wiki/Getting_Started

"An automated GUI first time installer tool called mingw-get-inst is
currently the preferred method of installation."

Re: Some comments on the MSYS-based build

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>
> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 22:51:53 +0200
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> >> The key word in Earnie's message is *updating*. Indeed, mingw-get-inst
> >> >> is not intended for updating, only for installing.
> >> >
> >> > Then we shouldn't tell them to use it for installing, either.
> >> 
> >> Why?
> >
> > Because they will then use it for updating as well.
> 
> We can mention the restriction on INSTALL.MSYS and hopefully the MinGW
> guys will modify the installer for disallowing updates. Furthermore,
> nothing terrible happens if you accidentally reuse mingw-get-inst: just
> wipe all the MinGW directory and reinstall.

I'd rather not make INSTALL.MSYS a tutorial on mingw-get and related
issues.

> mingw-get-inst makes installing mingw+msys a breeze. It is a waste to
> not take advantage from it.

Is something factually wrong with the current text?  Once everything
is accurate, I think we can leave the rest to the users.