From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ivan Shmakov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: proposal: require GnuTLS 3.1.x (previous stable) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 12:57:28 +0000 Message-ID: <87d28aqfuv.fsf@violet.siamics.net> References: <87389762xj.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> <87h9xnqfdl.fsf@violet.siamics.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417006680 1739 80.91.229.3 (26 Nov 2014 12:58:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 12:58:00 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 26 13:57:58 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XtcAP-0002Fu-SE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 13:57:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33609 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtcAP-0006NX-Bz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:57:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55153) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtcAB-0006NS-1N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:57:44 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtcA9-0000vs-4B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:57:42 -0500 Original-Received: from fely.am-1.org ([2a01:4f8:d15:1b86::2]:48617) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtcA8-0000vS-Ni for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:57:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=siamics.net; s=a2013295; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:Sender:References:Subject:To:From; bh=/NUD9RZsuJPk/7q97XAThWr4ul0W1n0WyXlUxVYtXh4=; b=qed0VgMdxo1XyE9kzUKdWL9ZvV1GX7gtLWUXMObYhuSiFXBTooqxNY2Ql1/6WB1LsVA+7NG6xXuFMIVvGTEOMvbeMrvV0hvZYMINeY7iLh3FrDi5gy/G9V4F02dW7U/yCxM4SB03Uv2Wl/C4d9kZuX2/bBnNRrukNf6A34XanJ8=; Original-Received: from [2a02:2560:6d4:26ca::1:1d] (helo=violet.siamics.net) by fely.am-1.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XtcA4-0005wf-Hp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 12:57:37 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=violet.siamics.net) by violet.siamics.net with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Xtc9x-00042V-45 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 19:57:29 +0700 Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Peder O. Klingenberg's message of "Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:14:12 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a01:4f8:d15:1b86::2 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178293 Archived-At: >>>>> Peder O Klingenberg writes: >>>>> On Tue, Nov 25 2014 at 18:55, Ivan Shmakov wrote: >> Yes, although I=E2=80=99d rather question the necessity of building Ema= cs >> =E2=80=98master=E2=80=99 on an LTS GNU/Linux system. If the intent is = to use the >> last decade=E2=80=99s versions of Libc and Coreutils, =E2=80=93 why Ema= cs has to be >> newer than that? > Because features. My desktop machine runs Kubuntu 10.04 still, > because it mostly does what I need without needing my attention all > the time, it is a stable platform I can use to get work done. > There is no conscious desire to run old software for nostalgias sake, > more a lack of desire to upgrade willy-nilly with the associated > breakage-fixing and retraining of muscle memory because some dimwits > decided to reinvent everything badly. > I do most of my work in Emacs. That means I care about it more than > I care about this months desktop fad, the latest and greatest in init > systems, or whatever fancy gui+daemon should be used to dynamically > configure the network on my perfectly stationary, hardwired desktop > machine. I understand the sentiment. However, my own (free) advice for this case would be to switch to (non-LTS) Debian and Openbox. The Debian=E2=80=99s commitment to non-Linux variants of the GNU system (including GNU proper), combined with the Systemd maintainers=E2=80=99 well-known decision not to care about such systems at all, effectively means that Debian is bound to continue its support for our good old SysV init in the foreseeable future. (And why, I=E2=80=99ve just got a fresh install of SysVinit-based Jessie running in a QEMU/KVM environment. No issues observed so far.) At the same time, Openbox appears to offer unparalleled stability when it comes to the UI. The only major UI change I can readily recall to happen since I=E2=80=99ve switched to it ca.=C2=A020= 08 is that the list shown when switching windows was changed to be strictly vertical (previously it was columns-and-rows.) Formerly, I=E2=80=99ve experimented with FVWM, TWM, WindowMaker; and even (ca.=C2=A02000) the then-nascent KDE and GNOME =E2=80=93 both of which I=E2=80=99ve found rather boring and lacking any substance, so to say. > I started building emacs from trunk because the repository version > had features I wanted. Mostly --daemon, which is a killer feature > and a real productivity boost for me, and which was not available in > the distro-packaged emacs. I was willing to invest the time and > effort involved to get a better emacs, but I was, and am, reluctant > to upgrade the bits of the machine that work just fine. I mainly use Emacs under Screen, which means that I=E2=80=99m having at least some benefits of --daemon since the Emacs=C2=A020 days. To me, running the latest development version of Emacs means that I can try its new features one at a time (more or less), instead of having them being forced upon me a pile at once. >> Especially given that the older versions of the system, when >> necessary to support legacy software, could be just as well be run >> in chroot(2) environments. (Or even be entirely =E2=80=9Cvirtual.=E2= =80=9D) > It's not about legacy software. It's about how I choose to spend my > limited time. There=E2=80=99re valid cases where upgrading the system breaks the software one relies upon, and the cost of fixing these issues properly (be it time or money) is just too high. This is what forced me to gain some experience with chroots and the like. > Playing sysadmin was really exciting back when I installed slackware > from a stack of floppies. These days, time spent maintaining the OS > is time not spent doing what they pay me to do, and what I enjoy > doing - develop software. Alas, some of the things I do require the use of software other than Emacs, which warrants keeping my systems reasonably up to date. (Although it sure got easier ever since Emacs got EWW, and I=E2=80=99ve got the VC MediaWiki backend working, too. What=E2=80=99= s even better is that there are still a few unexplored packages, including ELPA ones, which look rather promising=E2=80=A6) [=E2=80=A6] --=20 FSF associate member #7257 http://boycottsystemd.org/ =E2=80=A6 3013 B6A0= 230E 334A