From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 15:05:15 +0100 Message-ID: <87d27pdkv8.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <87ppbqb6s1.fsf@gnu.org> <87h9x2f9me.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87a92uf8ik.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <8761dif6ib.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87y4qddwd5.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1418393169 22305 80.91.229.3 (12 Dec 2014 14:06:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 14:06:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs-Devel devel To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 12 15:06:02 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XzQr2-0006Ba-CI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 15:06:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57445 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XzQr1-0001rI-SC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:05:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58958) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XzQqv-0001p7-Oc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:05:57 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XzQqu-000466-OF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:05:53 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:54041) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XzQqu-000462-Kf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:05:52 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32983 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XzQqu-0002pC-76; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:05:52 -0500 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3EE53E0669; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 15:05:15 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Lennart Borgman's message of "Fri, 12 Dec 2014 13:03:56 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179900 Archived-At: Lennart Borgman writes: > On Dec 12, 2014 10:57 AM, "David Kastrup" wrote: >> > >> > OpenSearchServer (based on Apache Lucene) is very flexible. Maybe you >> > can't get exactly the incremental search that Info uses now, but you >> > can get a list of suggestions for every character you type. You can >> > customize that list. >> > >> > And Info does not have a search capability that is close to the usual >> > web search (implicit) AND operator. >> > >> > But there is more you can use, like searching in fields (if the >> > documents are structured with some fields, of course). >> >> So the argument is that a huge flexible heap of complex technology >> should make users just as happy as straightforward simple working >> functionality. > > No. The point is to try to give new users something they are familiar > with. At the cost of giving old users something that is less useful to a degree that isn't funny. Because what new users are "familiar with" is a crutch created to substitute for the case where nobody bothered _either_ preparing a useful index, _or_ a useful keyboard interface to it. > It must of course also be good. Either it is something new users are familiar with or it is good even in relation to existing Info mode. You can't have both. Which is sort of sad seeing how old Info mode is. Obviously automatically prepared indices have a hard time competing with humans (and indeed the major search engines _do_ put humans in the loop). But that's not really all that much of an excuse for browsers/HTML not offering useful keyboard interfaces and mechanisms into searching and indexing. -- David Kastrup