From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 09:29:43 +0900 Message-ID: <87d27b5hu0.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87388bnzha.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87k31mdbhe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tx0qiv45.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9wqd3i5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fvc8kdsp.fsf@gnu.org> <6e11cd85-09a0-4b7a-baa2-0c810bdebbce@default> <871tnsg0w7.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <834msoqrsg.fsf@gnu.org> <87k31ki3tc.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83zjafpu3b.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1419294621 9282 80.91.229.3 (23 Dec 2014 00:30:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 00:30:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lennart.borgman@gmail.com, adatgyujto@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 23 01:30:13 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3DMZ-0004lR-Vm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Dec 2014 01:30:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42544 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3DMZ-0002FH-D2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:30:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45641) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3DMP-00029M-SB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:30:09 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3DMI-0003zv-AK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:30:01 -0500 Original-Received: from shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.161]:52873) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3DMA-0003zE-9U; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:29:46 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 741691C38C8; Tue, 23 Dec 2014 09:29:43 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5108B1A2CFC; Tue, 23 Dec 2014 09:29:43 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <83zjafpu3b.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta34) "kale" acf1c26e3019 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.161 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:180526 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > > (But not in this case. I get completely > > different results, oriented to very different audiences. > > By contrast, the above simple use of 'i' puts me _exactly_ where I > want to be. But Eli, unless you've got a psychological condition I haven't noticed, you are at most one of those audiences. And even if you didn't write that node and indexing markup, you could have, no? Of course you're not surprised! That's hardly a fair test. Don't get me wrong: I have always been happy with the results of "i", 80% or 90% of the time it does indeed take me exactly where I want to be, and much of the rest of the time I end up in some unintended place that is nevertheless educational (and usefully so). But I also did the whole tutorial the first time I used Emacs, and often get started with a new program by reading a few chapters in sequence from the reference manual. So I'm hardly a reliable witness on what "typical" users would expect.