From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Garreau\, Alexandre" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why is there no `until' in elisp? Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 01:00:15 +0200 Message-ID: <87d0s9lcow.fsf@portable.galex-713.eu> References: <87murdu6to.fsf@portable.galex-713.eu> <877eihbt1y.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87o9btr8m2.fsf@portable.galex-713.eu> <875zy1fxod.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1539730701 3552 195.159.176.226 (16 Oct 2018 22:58:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 22:58:21 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus (5.13), GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eric Abrahamsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 17 00:58:17 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gCYI4-0000nU-Hf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 00:58:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60520 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gCYKB-0005af-1H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 19:00:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:32804) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gCYK5-0005aV-D8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 19:00:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gCYK4-0000sb-Ke for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 19:00:21 -0400 Original-Received: from portable.galex-713.eu ([2a00:5884:8305::1]:41424) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gCYK3-0000pn-KK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 19:00:20 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=portable.galex-713.eu) by portable.galex-713.eu with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gCYJz-0001mf-UY; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 01:00:16 +0200 X-GPG-FINGERPRINT: E109 9988 4197 D7CB B0BC 5C23 8DEB 24BA 867D 3F7F X-Accept-Language: fr, en, it, eo In-Reply-To: <875zy1fxod.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> (Eric Abrahamsen's message of "Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:23:30 -0700") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:5884:8305::1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:230429 Archived-At: On 2018-10-16 at 13:23, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: > I don't think it has anything to do with making the language harder to > learn. It's just the fact that the constructs are so easy to add (this > is the power of lisp, after all), and different developers might want > very slightly different versions of the same thing, so people just put > in their own versions of things. I was to say that when it=E2=80=99s about simple enough things, there=E2=80= =99s a way people agree, especially if we try keeping it minimal, but then Stefan Monnier proposed a different version of until I didn=E2=80=99t though about= , so I must admit this is more complex (I keep thinking we need different words / identifiers for non-minimal cases). > Obviously there are plenty of people who feel differently about it, > which is why we have all these supplementary packages within Emacs and > the package repositories. If we=E2=80=99re effectively speaking of stuff big enough to justify a pack= age, then we=E2=80=99re going into DSL libraries that might make themselves alie= n and less readable to the uninitiated. > But the core of the language remains conservative about additions. > Personally, I think that's a good thing. I=E2=80=99m unsure, it encourages reinventing the wheel, while there are ot= her measurment to discriminate between what is known, common and popular and the more experimental rest.