From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gathering data on user preferences Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2021 17:54:09 +1000 Message-ID: <87czpklsng.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h7exkphw.fsf@gmail.com> <20210907064208.GB4097@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21846"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.7.0; emacs 27.2.50 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: tomas@tuxteam.de Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 07 10:04:05 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mNW5N-0005To-MO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 10:04:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49642 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNW5M-0008S5-I7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 04:04:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41394) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNW4Q-0007l8-NI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 04:03:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x534.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::534]:43956) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNW4P-0004ep-4I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 04:03:06 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x534.google.com with SMTP id r2so9094450pgl.10 for ; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 01:03:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=Kr4KfjQPulyM0TZ4F38+jJ/Jv5WIMw8Fp5noBGFYh4w=; b=TYY9My9+0zM772bicwI1lSY5OszBYXz/qlshvjw5tPPe19AxO9aepQRd1b/MR+sjUe OcNw8oRCt7k+o4pc9FvMihKGDUyYs5C3D/c9zAypU4hi3EUvedlMF/L8cLFBDA6ir+4q 85cvU8vcEfOEhEaaW8P++yoezB58JwGay05hyGLyPyX/pQh2ns6RDydvBDRcRQhAGppS yqYNTVwPDGODZa+0L7y8NN/hflhZDuCiUeSE3clztISYSYGe06K0qsBXlsTn+vaPFi4U UJqwP+ZBCo657qPrIB9ENznKcGMdNmkRDLX/vV070OMoYKqCmPXozEz/PMUwh9Bp8Uia QxTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=Kr4KfjQPulyM0TZ4F38+jJ/Jv5WIMw8Fp5noBGFYh4w=; b=g10d2phluWQPuWxBpDLwVIpMvvdKw8o1ccHgUrw4ELuaYvQk8ToMplG7gT0wmDCjr0 18fI8xQwxYtX0aqdoOoDrBfhYIEuhGHANWd8FkkSFMX0bHvgGiWMzFK5bBhN2eZQelLm 1Tux9HsGzdSvKB2+a/K4+OmtH+zNDgSs9HDd1VPXONUJt038wVjyEb/ZSV1wrXOolMcR GeNpo87ULobuD159rIs2y4WDJ0J2qNGEETbYCfT+FosQw9vgD66n3I35+EnOoAV+P+z+ 8ERpi5XOrH6HI1Ej73lD+YRzfrGR1Z1zj2ZIpmHCmt5sob+eOTJUac+H6yWt4hGFXj/m i+Fg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533Kg8l6x2ks6mZeCM93KeQQIuvnMiSNSos1LWc4TkwDFVUjRWlT AfmUvVI43UVHGt2KxzfKoN9QRxpw2UQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyTCMY+H+VgL+IKsUpKMP2c9qbcQgF4hG9DE4k2+o/bqCL+WSB+O8T0TJgCfoQGakqx7Fmikg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:6d82:: with SMTP id i124mr15980671pgc.37.1631001783117; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 01:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from tim-desktop (106-69-96-223.dyn.iinet.net.au. [106.69.96.223]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l14sm1738737pjq.13.2021.09.07.01.03.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 07 Sep 2021 01:03:02 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <20210907064208.GB4097@tuxteam.de> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::534; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x534.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:274213 Archived-At: writes: > [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]] > On Tue, Sep 07, 2021 at 01:22:46PM +1000, Tim Cross wrote: >> >> Recent threads on proposed changes to default settings, provision of >> configuration profiles, surveying Emacs users etc make me wonder if we >> could use ELPA more effectively to gather valuable data on settings of >> interest. >> >> My thinking is that we could create an ELPA package [...] >> [...] for users to submit details about >> their current settings which could be used to help inform decisions >> regarding default settings. > > Basically a good idea. There's well-established precedent with > Debian's popcon [1]. At install you are asked whether you want > to take part in it, the default being "no". So it is active > "opt in". > > The original idea was to have some basis for deciding which packages > go into the first CD (remember those?). > > Some preliminary work has to be done by Someone [TM]. For example, > you wouldn't like your IMAP account credentials published in some > statistics :-) > > I.e. some categorising of variables into publishable and private > (perhaps with more than just two levels? Decisions, decisions) > seems in order (reminds one of that "safe variable" thing, doesn't > it?). > > So I think some discussion and some design work are needed; but it > seems a good idea. And popcon (impressively) shows that it actually > /can/ work. > I was thinking of only getting data on 'non-sensitive' variables and only aggregate data would be available (i.e. make sure it is not possible to say person x submitted values a, b and c). It could possibly even be setup as a very simple web service which just accepts a JSON object in the body of a POST request. That would avoid anyone having to provide an email address. The possible downside is that this would be open to 'gaming' the system, but I'm not sure we need to worry about that too much - there is little reward in doing so. The system would definitely be 'opt in' and the user would be shown exactly what is going to be sent (and provided with the ability to remove anything they are not comfortable with).