From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Motif support Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2021 12:29:05 +0100 Message-ID: <87czlszvcu.fsf@telefonica.net> References: <878rwhbb91.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <878rwhbb91.fsf@yahoo.com> <83ee699irm.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1a99icp.fsf@yahoo.com> <835yrl9gob.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsqp9cvn.fsf@yahoo.com> <87mtkwzxpd.fsf@telefonica.net> <871r2898rl.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ilvkzx1m.fsf@telefonica.net> <87wnk07tfq.fsf@yahoo.com> <87sfuo7t0a.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40304"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:M6NdHE+i4rgpceKSoyUdLY7QSDQ= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 19 12:33:23 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1myuRP-000ANp-7i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2021 12:33:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51280 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1myuRO-0003pb-6H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2021 06:33:22 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48970) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1myuNP-0005gZ-3C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2021 06:29:17 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:43280) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1myuNN-00083P-Ig for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2021 06:29:14 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1myuNL-0004ta-Bd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2021 12:29:11 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:282414 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: >> "Lucid" is just the widget library used to interface with (partially) >> both Motif and the variants of Athena widgets. >> >> Both the Motif build and the "Lucid" build use the Lucid library. Even >> the GTK build, PGTK port, NS port and W32 port use parts of the Lucid >> library for handling menus. The only GUI port that is completely free >> of lwlib is the Haiku port. > > In short: you (and many other people who have not worked with the X > port) I looked at the sources and quickly decided that I would only work with that under duress. > are grossly overstating the amount of work needed to keep the > Motif build working, and how difficult it is to comprehend. I'm afraid that on this topic there are a lot of self-fulling prophecies and selection biases. Whenever somebody mentions the complexity of the source, some seasoned hacker pops up saying that the assessment is wrong, without realizing that he is precisely the worst placed person to dispute the assessment. > New hackers will likely have much more trouble understanding the GTK > code than the code for a well-behaved X toolkit such as Motif. New hackers probably are more comfortable with GTK than with legacy X libraries. > IME, they will also have more difficulties understanding X in general, > which is quite different from other contemporary window systems. Yes. > For example, do you really understand what we do in `XTflash' with the > various versions of GTK and Cairo? I prefer to keep those horrible thoughts out of my mind ;-) > I apologize in advance if this reply appears to have an accausatory > tone: if it does, I didn't intend for it to be that way, but I couldn't > find another wording that would get the point accross. No worries, I understand your position. On the past I supported Eli he objected to removing the DOS port, so I say the same on your case: if that is the price for keeping you hacking on Emacs, it is a good trade-off. But let's not pretend that all that extra complexity has no impact on others.